Transcript

KHCB – 03-23-2023 – Full Program Transcript 

Announcer: [00:00:09] Good evening. The time is now 9:30 Central time. And we welcome you to our weekly Question and Answers program. A program where you can call us with your questions about the Bible, about a scripture or the Christian way of life. Our guests will answer the question for you live on the air. Tonight’s guests are Dr. Andy Woods, Pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church. He’s also president of the Chafer Theological Seminary. He’s joined tonight also by Dr. Jim McGowan, Associate Pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church. The church is located at 401 Matlage Way in Sugar Land, Texas. That’s right off of University Boulevard and Highway 90. The church website is SLBC.org. You can also catch Dr. Woods and Jim McGowan on Pastors Point of View. They discuss current issues and prophecy updates. You can find them on YouTube (PPOV) and Rumble. Or you can search them on Andy Woods Ministries.org. If you’re calling from inside the Houston listening area, you can dial (832) 922-4444. That’s (832) 922-4444. If you’re calling from around the KHCB network outside the Houston area, you can dial toll free (877) 999-5422. That’s (877) 999-5422. Or if you’d rather email your question to us, you can send that to questions. That’s question with as ‘s’ plural Questions@KHCB.org and it will appear on our computer screen here in the studio and we’ll forward it to our guests. We ask that you not mention any denominations or personal names, because our aim tonight is to answer questions relating to the Bible. And now here are our guests to get us started. Dr. Andy Woods and Dr. Jim McGowan.

Pastor McGowan: [00:02:45] Well, welcome once again. Listening friends, Dr. Woods, brother Noah, our producer and call screener and I are very excited to be back with you this evening to take your Bible questions. As always, we’re going to be going to God’s Holy Word, the Bible for answers, because as we say, every time God’s Holy Word is the only inspired, authoritative revelation of everlasting truth containing everything we need for life and godliness. So our prayer is that you will expect to hear God speak to you personally through His Word this evening, and that you’ll praise and thank him when he does. We’re about to go to the phones, but we need to take care of some housekeeping. There are 3 on-air directives. Number 1, please remember to keep your on-air-time to 1 question only. Number 2, please remember also to turn the volume down before we bring you on the air. And number 3, once you’ve shared your questions, please hang up so that the next caller will have a free line to call in. And we’ll again, let me give the phone numbers again and then we’ll look to the phone, shall we? If you’re in the local area, you can call 832-922-4444. If you’re outside the local area, you can call toll free at 877-999-5422. And as Brother Noah mentioned, if you would prefer, you can email your question to questions (with an s) Questions@KHCB.org. While we’re waiting for our first caller, let’s go to an email question. Pastor, this individual wrote in and says, what do you what do you think about a divorced man being a pastor? His wife divorced as well. The man is solid theologically and has been, as his first wife was unfaithful, I guess.

Pastor Woods: [00:04:38] All right. Well, that’s an issue that goes to the requirements of overseers in the church. And 1st Timothy 3 really verses 1 through 7 lays out the requirements. And just focusing on verse 2, it says, “an overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, able to teach”; verse 3, “not addicted to wine nor pugnacious but gentle uncontentious whose character is free from the love of money”. You know what I’ve kind of discovered with this brother Jim, is we treat husband of one wife differently than any other requirement in the passage. And the reason I say that is these verbs are all in the present tense. So, I don’t think it’s talking about what happened to somebody, you know, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. I’m more interested in not if they’ve had a divorce in their background. I’m more interested in what is their character like today? Are they a one man woman today? Because I believe in the process of progressive sanctification. I’m not the I’m not the man I should be, but thank God I’m not the man I used to be because God is developing my character. So I think, you know, we unfairly bar people a lot of times from service in the church as pastors or elders because they’ve got this divorce or something. Even if it’s a divorce that wasn’t done on biblical grounds, we have a tendency, even if it happened years and years and years ago, to bar such a person.

Pastor Woods: [00:06:28] I don’t think that’s what Paul’s talking about. You know, it’s appropriate to make that inquiry if you have a divorce in your past, if you’re trying to determine what’s your character like today. But if your character today is totally different, I don’t really think a divorce in the past should be held up against someone, kind of like The Scarlet Letter, you know, that they can never serve in the church. And I say that because the verse 3 says, Not pugnacious or contentious. So does that mean if somebody blew their top 30 years ago and got visibly angry that they can’t serve in the church? That’s not what Paul’s talking about. Paul is dealing with – Are they currently over and over again losing their temper? And that’s the issue that should bar them, the latter, not the former. So my view on this husband of one wife is a little bit more lax probably than you hear from a lot of other folks. Who will say if there’s a divorce, you know, he’s out. And I don’t think that’s what Paul is is dealing with. And I do have a paper on this online. If people want the full biblical documentation, they’ll find it on a website called Spirit and Truth, all one word, Spirit and Truth.org. And the title of the article is “The Meaning of Husband of one Wife in 1st Timothy 3, verse 2”. And so you’ll find my position expressed in that paper.

Pastor McGowan: [00:08:00] All right. Great. Thank you so much for that great answer, Pastor. All right. I think we’re ready to go to the phones. So thank you for calling the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods?

Caller: [00:08:11] It has to do with the situation between Jacob and Esau. My question is, if God is the God of love, he says, why did he love Jacob but hate Esau? That’s my question.

Pastor McGowan: [00:08:25] All right. Thank you so much for calling the program. Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:08:29] Well, that’s a wonderful question. You know, Jacob, have I loved, Esau have I hated. How does that square with John 3:16 for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son? Well, you have to define hate the way the Bible defines it.  And when you go over to Luke’s Gospel chapter 14 and verse, I believe it’s verse 26, if memory serves, Jesus, when he was calling for people to be his disciples, he said, you had to be willing to hate your mother and father. Now, obviously he cannot mean emotional hatred for your parents because the 5th commandment is honor your mother and father. In fact, he chided the folks of his day who were using religiosity, something called Corban, to get away from supporting their parents in their old age. So obviously, when Jesus says you’ve got to be willing to hate your parents to be his disciple, he can’t mean emotional hatred because that would contradict other areas of Scripture. So what you have to understand is in the Bible, hate means not choosing. In other words, if there’s a conflict between what Jesus says and what your parents say, unless you’re willing to put the will of Jesus over the will of your parents, you can’t walk out discipleship.

Pastor Woods: [00:10:02] And so that’s what he means by hatred there. It’s not emotional hatred. It’s lack of choice. So, when it says in the Bible, Jacob, have I loved and Esau have I hated, basically it’s not saying God hated Esau. What it’s saying is God decided to further the messianic line. Not through the line of Esau, but through the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And I don’t even think it’s a choice. There as many, I think, misconstrue the passage as a choice of one is saved and one is not. I don’t think that’s what he’s dealing with at all. He’s saying the messianic lineage is going to continue through Jacob’s line and not Esau’s line. Why? Because I made that choice. Okay. And when I made that choice, that means I didn’t choose Esau for that privilege. I chose Jacob. And that’s what’s bound up in the biblical word “Hatred”. And so, once again, it’s not saying God loves one and hates the other. What it’s saying is God chose sovereignly to further the messianic lineage through Jacob and not Esau. And I’m factoring in Christ’s use of the word hatred in Luke chapter 14, verse 26.

Pastor McGowan: [00:11:19] Amen, great question and thank you so much, Pastor, for that great answer. And back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:11:28] Hello, How are you doing today?

Pastor McGowan: [00:11:29] Wonderful. How are you?

Caller: [00:11:30] I’m doing fine. Now, I was calling. I just I’m going to ask this question again because I didn’t really get a clear cut answer the last time. How did you deal with weak minded people like a person that’s easy to be manipulated? Because I know, of course, we need to pray for everybody, but I know some people that’s not believers. They not easy to be manipulated, you know, they just have a mind of their own. So I just want to know, how do you deal with a person like that?

Pastor McGowan: [00:12:03] All right. Thank you so much for calling the program. We appreciate your question. How do we deal with weak minded people?

Pastor Woods: [00:12:09] Well, you know, you deal with people that are stubborn or weak minded or have a contrary will like you would deal with any other problem person. You pray for God to change their heart. And that’s probably the best answer I could give from limited data that I’m working with.

Pastor McGowan: [00:12:27] Yeah. And give God time to work on them because sometimes, you know, we want to see instantaneous change and God doesn’t always work according to our timetable. He certainly didn’t work according to my timetable in my life when he brought me to Christ. So. Amen. All right. Well, hope that was helpful to you. Thank you so much for calling the program. And one more time, back to the phones we go. Thank you for calling the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:12:54] Yeah. Hey, guys. Um, so I’m in the online. I’m following Dr. Woods 1st Thessalonian series. And last night, I well, it just got to me. It just got me to thinking. So Dr. Woods is explaining that the dead in Christ are coming down. And I always had a vision since verse 16 says that the dead will be raised. So I guess I’m just kind of wondering, like the. I know, I know. We really won’t know. But will the actual graves be opened or, you know, but then again, there’s people dead at sea or in war time where they’re not there is no body anymore. So I was just wondering if Dr. Woods could speak to that kind of like Matthew 27:52 and 53, where after Christ was, you know, died, the graves were opened and the holy ones came out. So anyway, that’s my question.

Pastor McGowan: [00:14:06] Thanks. All right. Thank you so much for calling the program. And I bet you he can answer that question.

Pastor Woods: [00:14:11] Well, in 1st Thessalonians 4, 13 through 18, when it says the dead in Christ will rise first, I mean, where are the dead in Christ? Paul says absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So, when a person dies, their body and which is the material part of them, separates from their immaterial part, part that’s designed to live forever, you know, the soul or the psuché. The two separate. I mean, you’ll see that happening with Jesus in Matthew 27 around verses 50 and 51, and you’ll see it happening with Stephen in Acts 7, verse 59. That’s what death is. It’s a separation and the immaterial part of you, if you’re a believer, goes right into the presence of the Lord. So at the point of the rapture, the dead in Christ rise first. In other words, they are put in their resurrected bodies first, meaning that they are rejoined with their body. It’s just the body is it’s meant to be. It’s still them. But the consequences of sin have now been pulled out of the body. All of our bodies have been negatively impacted because of the doctrine of original sin. And just look in the mirror sometimes to get evidence. Well, I got a mirror in my house, too, you know, And so we’re all sort of, you know, getting older and, you know, less and less attractive to be, to be quite honest.

Pastor McGowan: [00:15:46] [laughing] Can we move on?

Pastor Woods: [00:15:49] So when the rapture happens, the dead in Christ rise first. They’re reunited with their bodies. Now, does that mean that graves are opened? It could mean that. I like the example that was given there about how the tombs were opened. And those in Jerusalem, you know, in bodies were walking around. So it could be that kind of scenario. But some way somehow and I don’t know if the Bible gives us every detail that we would like, you know.  Some of these you find answers to in the new Left Behind movie, you know, which is a great movie. I don’t know if I would go there first, though, for my theology. We want to go to the Bible and the Bible just doesn’t answer those specifically those kinds of questions. I mean, I would assume that coffins and graves and things like that would be opened, but I don’t know that. I just know that some way somehow God is going to reunite the deceased Christian’s spirit or soul or psuché with their body. And their body will be in a resurrected state. And it’s at that point that those that are in the presence of Christ begin to descend. And if this happens in our lifetime, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up.

Pastor Woods: [00:17:08] So, we’re placed in our resurrected bodies second. We’re immediately transformed from mortality to immortality. And so as that happens, then we’re caught up and the two groups meet together in the sky. And that’s how Paul says comfort one another with these words because you’re going to actually see your deceased loved ones again at the point of the rapture. Now, what about people, you know, that, you know, like the Neptune Society or whatever, you know, their ashes were thrown into the sea. What’s going to happen to their body? Well, I’m here to tell you, folks, that’s no problem for God. God can recycle all of those ashes. And even burial doesn’t fix the problem because from dust to dust, you shall return. Whether the body is in the sea, whether the body is buried under the ground, whether the body is decomposed, God in his omnipotence is capable of recycling all the parts of that body. All of the particles. So that we can be resurrected at the point of the rapture. So I hope that helps.

Pastor McGowan: [00:18:15] Amen And boy, wouldn’t it be great if the rapture happened right now? Of course there’d be a lot of dead radio air after that, wouldn’t it? Let’s go back to the phones, shall we?

Pastor Woods: [00:18:24] We hope. We hope that would be the case.

Pastor McGowan: [00:18:26] Amen. Well, thank you for calling the program. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:18:33] Good evening. Good evening. My question is concerning Egypt, and I got to explain it with two scriptures. I’m studying with this bishop, and he explained the scripture in Revelation 11, verse 8. So to explain Egypt, he went to Exodus chapter 20, verse 2, where it says, The Lord thy God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. So Egypt is synonymous for bondage, meaning slavery. So the other scripture’s in Deuteronomy 2868, when it says, and the Lord shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships and a house of bondage into slavery. So the only time I can understand a people went into slavery by ships was during the transatlantic slave trade. So my question is in verse 8 of Revelation 11, where it said, and there are dead bodies that lie in the street of the great city. So this is talking about the Israelites, which is spiritually called Sodom. So if you look at America today, they have made all type of sodomy laws, same sex marriage and the agenda to push that is rapid and we know that. And Egypt.

Pastor Woods: [00:20:04] So, what’s your question?

Caller: [00:20:06] Well, so this is my question. My question is, if this is the spiritual Egypt America and we did get people to come over here on slave cargo ships. So my question would be this. So, if this is the people, are these the Jews that are here in America and not?

Pastor McGowan: [00:20:31] All right. Thank you for calling the program. Let’s see if we can provide you an answer there.

Pastor Woods: [00:20:36] All right. Well, this passage, Revelation 11, verse 8, really has nothing to do with the Jews in America because it says there and their dead bodies, that’s the two witnesses will lie in the streets of the great city. Now, what city is it? Well, the rest of the passage tells you where also their Lord was crucified. So this is clearly the city of Jerusalem in the tribulation period. And the reason why the city of Jerusalem in the tribulation period is mystically called Sodom and Egypt is because Jerusalem in the tribulation period will be following basically the antichrist for three and a half years. And they’re not converted yet. They’ve been, you know, Ezekiel 36, 24 and 25 says they’re brought back into their own land first in unbelief. You’ll see this also in the vision of the valley of the dry bones. The bones are gathered first and then breath comes into the bones second. And so verse 11 of Ezekiel 37 says, These bones represent the whole house of Israel. So God has a plan for Israel. While she’s in unbelief, she’ll fall under the sway of the Antichrist. And then once he desecrates her temple, the Jewish eyes begin to be opened in the second half of the tribulation period, and they eventually come to saving faith in Yeshua, which is the Hebrew name for Jesus. And so, all this is talking about is Israel in unbelief, in really I would think, the first half of the tribulation period where even the city of Jerusalem, God’s holy city, is dominated. Aided by the spirit of Sodom, which means depravity and Egypt, which means bondage or bondage to sin or perhaps legalism. So don’t factor into this the United States of America. I mean, that’s not in the context at all. It’s Jerusalem in her unbelieving state in the first half of the tribulation period prior to her conversion.

Pastor McGowan: [00:22:52] Yeah. And I might just add this comment, if I could, that each one of the passages that were given to us Revelation 11:8, Exodus 22, Deuteronomy 28:68 are all contextually specifically dealing with Israel. And this is why we say what’s the most important rule in in interpretation? It’s context, context, context. So again, thank you so much for calling the program. Back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:23:26] Good evening. My question is regarding the kingdom of God. So my question is, is the kingdom of God within us in a sense of spiritual sense or will it be something I need help with that. What is that Kingdom of God mean?

Pastor McGowan: [00:23:44]  All right. Thanks so much for calling the program. What is Kingdom of God refer to pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:23:50] All right. He’s most likely making reference to Luke 17 and I believe it’s verses 20 and 21 where Jesus says, let me just read verse 20. It says, Now, having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said, The Kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed. Nor will they say, Look, here it is, or there it is. For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst. So a lot of people take that to mean, well, the Kingdom of God must mean Jesus coming into my heart, you know, after I get saved, that must be the kingdom of God. But that cannot be. He cannot be saying here, the Kingdom of God is within you, because who is he talking to? He’s talking to the Pharisees, verse 20, who are trying to trying to kill him. So, you know, then what is this speaking of? What it’s speaking of, is Israel based on her covenantal structure? And I would send you back to Deuteronomy 17, verse 15, where Israel had an obligation to enthrone the king of God’s own choosing. According to the Mosaic covenant, if Israel had done that, then the millennial kingdom would have materialized right then and there, not only for the nation of Israel, but for the whole world. And that’s keeping the word kingdom, the Greek word “Basileia”, consistent with all Old Testament revelation, the Kingdom of God, yes, it is spiritual, but it’s also physical.

Pastor Woods: [00:25:35] And it won’t manifest until, you know they beat their swords into plowshares and the Word of God comes forth from Zion and Jesus rules from David’s throne. Everything the Old Testament prophets develop concerning the kingdom. And that’s essentially what was offered to first century Israel, because Jesus was present. And what he’s saying here is enthrone me and the millennial kingdom will materialize. And that’s what he means when he says the kingdom is in your midst. Your opportunity to receive the Millennial kingdom in full, receive the offer of the kingdom is right now in your presence. And to turn that into, well, the kingdom is Jesus ruling in my heart. First of all, the kingdom doesn’t enter people. The Bible always portrays people entering the kingdom. So there’s some confusion there. And he can’t be talking about Jesus reigning and ruling in your heart because he’s talking to the Pharisees and to make the kingdom something happening in your heart, you’d have to redefine everything that the Old Testament reveals about the kingdom. So I do have a book on this. It’s the most academic book I’ve ever written. It’s over 400 pages and it’s called the The Coming Kingdom. It’s what the title of it is. And you can find that on Amazon or you can go to my website Andy Woods ministries.org and find it there. And it really is a full blown treatment on this subject of the kingdom.

Pastor McGowan: [00:27:10] Yeah. You know, I think pastors sometimes the problem that people run into is the particular translation that they’re using because I know some translations in in verse 21, they translate the Kingdom of God is within you. But, what again, this is where a knowledge of the Greek would be very, very helpful for because what it really means when he’s saying is within you means it’s within your midst. And that’s the problem because we’re looking at the English and not understanding, you know, the Greek texts behind that and sometimes getting a real good commentary can help with that. So we hope that was helpful to you. Thank you so much for calling the program. Back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:27:56] Good evening and thank you for your time that you’re putting into this program. My question is pertaining to the Last Supper. Judas was with Jesus at the Last Supper, correct. And didn’t Jesus tell him during the meal that he was Jesus told him to go do what you must do? And didn’t Judas take offense but didn’t Judas also meet up with Jesus when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane? Is that right?

Pastor McGowan: [00:28:35] That’s correct.

Caller: [00:28:37] Yeah, that’s correct. Okay. All right. Now, my question is, when did Judas commit suicide or hung himself? Was it was it at this time or was it after the crucifixion when Judas, when the reality of what Judas had done really set in? And that’s what I’m trying to figure out. When did Judas commit suicide?

Pastor McGowan: [00:29:03] All right. Thank you so much. That’s a great question. And I think we can probably find you a good Bible answer for that.

Pastor Woods: [00:29:09] Yeah, I think the suicide of Judas, if I remember right, is in Matthew chapter 27. And I believe and I’m looking there at, oh, I don’t know, verses 3 and following it says then when Judas who had betrayed him, saw that he had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders saying I have sinned by betraying innocent blood. But they said, What is that to us? See to that yourself? And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed. And he went away and hanged himself. So that’s in Matthew 27, roughly about verses 1 through 5. Now, the crucifixion of Jesus doesn’t happen until later on in the chapter. So you start to see the crucifixion of Jesus beginning in Matthew 27:27, and then Christ’s death is recorded beginning in verse 45, and then his burial verse 57. So Judas, apparently, according to Matthew’s chronology, committed suicide before the crucifixion, and I don’t think he committed suicide because of the crucifixion. He just committed suicide because of the guilt that he was under, because he came to the recognition that he had betrayed someone completely and totally innocent.

Pastor McGowan: [00:30:46] That’s exactly right, Amen. Well, we’re at the top of the hour, folks, so we’re going to pause for just a moment. Stay with us. When we come back, we’ll have our prayer for the nation. See you in a moment.

Pastor McGowan: [00:31:01] Welcome back to KHCB’s Question and answer program at the top of the hour. We always like to pause for our prayer for the nation. So if you’re in a safe place and you can do so, we’d encourage you to just to join with us as we go to the Lord in prayer. Abba Father, your word states in 1st Timothy 2:1 through 2 – I urge then first of all that petitions, prayers, intercession and Thanksgiving be made for all people, for kings and all those in authority that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. So at this time, we come to lift up our government, our leaders, and our nation with sincerity and conviction, recognizing the pressures that come with leadership. And we ask for wisdom and discernment for our current and prospective leaders. We specifically pray for conviction that leads to salvation for those who are un-believers, and for those who of our leaders who are believers that you might protect them from the seductive power inherent in their positions. We also pray that they might instead be outspoken regarding their faith in Christ and that the words of their mouth might be accurately reflected in their lives and attitudes. Abba Father, In light of the ongoing war in the Ukraine, we come to you on behalf of those serving Christ as pastors and missionaries and the body of Christ there. And we ask that you would please keep them safe and strong in their convictions and make them mighty witnesses for the faith so that many may come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus.

Pastor McGowan: [00:32:50] Father, we also pray that you would please protect all of our first responders, law enforcement officers, firemen and women, EMTs, doctors and nurses, the men and women faithfully serving in our military and all those who put their lives in jeopardy to save and rescue others. And Father, please bring them home safely to their families this evening. And finally, Father, help us who name the name of Christ to be salt and light and faithful witnesses to those who are lost and dying all around us so that they, too, might come to place their faith, confidence and trust in your beloved Son Jesus. Jesus, who is your one and only provision for the eternal safekeeping of their soul. Help us, Father, to continue to develop Christ likeness in our attitudes and actions and help us also to remember that we, your children, are temporary ambassadors for Christ called to faithfully occupy and represent you on this fallen planet. And we’re here to do that until we reunited or united with you through death or the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. And these things we pray and ask in the name of Jesus, Maranatha and Amen. Well, thank you for pausing with us. And now let’s go back to the phones. Thank you for calling the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods?

Caller: [00:34:26] I thank you. Why did Peter deny Jesus three times?

Pastor McGowan: [00:34:31] All right. That’s a great question. Thank you for calling the program. Thank you. Pastor, why did Peter deny Jesus three times?

Pastor Woods: [00:34:41] Well, I don’t think the number is significant as much as what is significant is Jesus had to empty Peter of his self-confidence because remember what he said. He said, I’ll never deny you, Lord. In other words, he could not become the man that he was supposed to be. In Acts chapters 1 through 10, a very powerful servant of God who gained that position by totally depending upon the Holy Spirit. And you can’t have a kind of a self-sufficient person evolve, if I can use that word, migrate into that type of type of character. So it took apparently with Peter’s character, Jesus knew Peter’s character well enough to understand that it would take not just once, not just twice, but three denials to break Peter, of who he ultimately of his self-sufficiency. And so that’s why I think Jesus chose three times for Peter, because Jesus knew his character and knew it would take three times for him to, you know, be reduced to a person that is despairs of himself and now is willing to completely trust in the power of the Holy Spirit. And once God has got us at that point, that’s a good place to be because now we’re in a position to become what we’re designed to become, depending on His power, not upon our own human resources. So with Peter’s case, it took three times Jesus, Jesus knew Peter’s character that well. It’s interesting. One of the times he’s confronted by a little slave girl. And this big, rugged fisherman, you know, denies Jesus yet again. And so it was designed to humiliate Peter, his flesh, really, and reduce him of his self-sufficiency so he could be a god dependent man and become the man he became an Acts 1 through 10.

Pastor McGowan: [00:36:50] Amen, God loves us so much that He doesn’t leave us the way we are, does he? He works on us to conform us to the image of his Son. All right. Thank you again so much for calling the program and that wonderful question. Back to the phones we go. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening? Hello. Back to the phones. Are you there? All right. What’s your Bible question?

Caller: [00:37:12] The question is, is first time I heard it, but recently I heard that the disciple Thomas apparently looked a lot like Jesus. And that is why Judas had to actually identify Jesus with a kiss so that the soldiers would know who he was.

Pastor McGowan: [00:37:34] All right. Well, that’s a very interesting thing to hear. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard that before. Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:37:40] Well, I would just say that’s an interesting theory, and that’s probably where it should be left. It’s in the realm of a theory because we really don’t know exactly what Thomas looked like. And to be honest with you, we don’t even know what Jesus looked like. Exactly. So, you know, theories that, well, you know, Judas had to kiss Jesus because he might have mistaken him for Thomas. I mean, this is long before the photographic era. So those are interesting theories to think about. But we just don’t have any solid, you know, biblical evidence to back them up.

Pastor McGowan: [00:38:16] Yeah, I think it’s probably more realistic if we stick with the text that says that they came with torches to and swords and such to come apprehend Jesus. And so the obvious question is, well, why did they need torches? Because it was the middle of the night and they’re in a garden and they don’t have streetlights like we have here. And of course, Jesus very likely was surrounded by his disciples. So it makes sense that there would have had to have been some way to identify him. So at least that’s my thought.

Pastor Woods: [00:38:43] And plus, Jesus called Judas “Friend” till the very end. And so a kiss maybe that was chosen so Christ wouldn’t be taken off guard. Maybe that was the reason a kiss was chosen. But, you know, we don’t really know because the Bible doesn’t say exactly.

Pastor McGowan: [00:39:00] All right. Thank you again for calling the program. We do appreciate that. And back to the phones we go. Thank you so much for your waiting and patience. And what is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening? You’re on.

Caller: [00:39:13] Hey, I’m on to teach world history at the public school next year. I’m in a pickle for you know. I’m a creationist. I believe the world and humankind is only thousands of years old. Uh, they want me to teach things that I really don’t believe in. Uh, in the latest was the walls of Jericho. That there’s no proof that the walls of Jericho fell down and that Joshua and the Israelites went in there and took it. Do you? And I’ve been watching this TV free TV called True History, so it’s like the best professors of colleges who are giving me all this information. And they are. I don’t think they’re wrong. Uh, but if you could, will you please give me some insight on how I can defend the Bible and exactly what it says? Because I believe the Bible is the spoken Word of God, and I need to be able to teach that with confidence. So if you will, just elaborate, please.

Pastor McGowan: [00:40:41] All right. What a great question. And may I just say, we’ll be praying for you as you go into the classroom to represent Jesus Christ. God bless you, brother. Thanks for calling the program, Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:40:53] Well, I mean, you’re in a tough position in the public school system trying to do that because I don’t think the legal system is on your side, unfortunately, because of some very, very bad, you know, Supreme Court rulings. So I don’t want to get you into any kind of hot water, but I applaud you for getting in there and seeking to do this. But, you know, when these archeologists and historians, you know, come on and they say there’s no proof for the walls of Jericho, I mean, how would they know? The only thing they’re doing? They weren’t there. So they’re interpreting data. That’s all they’re doing. And one of the things you can do is to show that there are other plausible interpretations of the exact same data. So with the walls of Jericho, I would recommend the Old Testament Introduction by Gleason Archer. If you look at his introduction to the book of Joshua, you know, you can get into that whole discussion. And he is a well credentialed conservative that knew, I think, over 20, 20 languages. He was a scholar’s scholar. I. To get a PhD from Harvard, if I remember right. And he says, okay, here’s how the Liberals interpret the data. Well, here’s another plausible interpretation. And so that way you’re not accused of jamming your religion down everybody’s throat. You’re just saying, you know, this is a classroom and it’s about interpretation. And we can’t be dogmatic with one interpretation. Here’s another possible interpretation. You know, you can do that with the theory of evolution. What is what are the evolution is doing? I mean, they weren’t there billions of years ago when allegedly everything started. They’re interpreting data that they can see in front of them according to their worldview. And you can expose that and say, here’s another interpretation of the exact same data through a different lens. And of course, ministries like Answers in Genesis, the Institute for Creation Research. I mean, they this is their expertise showing this. Um, I would recommend the book Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell.  And that’s the whole purpose of the book. It’s gone through a few additions and revisions. But you know, I remember reading the older one that kind of followed the Roman numeral system of writing. I think it’s kind of been upgraded and updated for the modern reader, but basically it’s all of the evidence as to why we know that the Bible is true. I mean, the Bible is true because of its prophetic content, its archeological content, its historical content. The fact that Jesus really was a man of history. You can demonstrate that not just from the Bible, but from, you know, Josephus and secular historians outside of the Bible. The Bible is true because of its unity. And we can go on and on and on. The fact of the matter is, God has not called us to commit intellectual suicide when we become Christians. Christianity is not a, you know, a leap into the dark. Basically, It is faith, but it is faith that is buttressed by solid fact, right down to the transmission of the Bible. We know that the Bible comes out so far ahead compared to any other works of antiquity concerning transmission. So the Josh McDowell book Evidence That Demands a Verdict, will really help you with these and related issues.

Pastor McGowan: [00:44:40] Yeah, he has actually has two volumes to that now. He has a new one also. I might also recommend to you the Biblical Archeology Society website. They have some excellent materials, again with scholared credentialed individuals doing research on site in the Holy lands. So that might also be helpful to you. So thank you so much for calling the program. We do appreciate that. Back to the phones. Thank you for your patience. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:45:11] Hi. I was wondering, I was listening to the previous caller and I was wondering if perhaps you could repeat the name of the author, the Harvard guy that knows 20 languages. And also, I don’t understand what you just said about the Bible comes out ahead with transmission. I don’t understand what that means, but those are not the reason I called. I called because I wanted Dr. Woods or Dr. McGowan to talk about the doctrine of election and predestination. And I’ll hang up and listen.

Pastor McGowan: [00:45:49] Yeah All right. Thank you so much for calling the program, Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:45:51] Well, concerning the author that she was looking for, it’s Gleason Archer. Last name A R C H E R.  That’s the individual that knew over 20 languages if I have the story right. And you want his – to get into his discussion about the walls of Jericho, you want his Old Testament introduction.  Concerning transmission, you know what I was and I of course, you know, I didn’t have much time to develop it. But the issue of transmission is how do you know that the copies of the Bible that we have today are accurate transmissions of the originals? Because we really don’t have the originals. And you can make that determination by looking at the number of copies of the originals that we have and the distance of time between the oldest copy and when we believe the originals were written. So when you look at those two factors, number of manuscripts and then distance between our oldest manuscript and when we think the original was written, and you compare those two things to other works of antiquity, whether it’s, you know, you know, Thucydides or Homer or, you know, the Iliad or any other work of antiquity, we come out way, way, way, way, way ahead. And if you’re going to throw out the Bible because you think it’s not been transmitted correctly, you have to toss out all of the other works of antiquity as well, which no scholar, particularly in the secular world, is willing to do. So it’s like they have one set of rules for the Bible and another set of rules for everything else. Now, the Josh McDowell book Evidence that Demands a Verdict, will help you greatly with that issue.

Pastor McGowan: [00:47:53] Yeah. And then she asked a question about election.

Pastor Woods: [00:47:55] Okay. Election versus free will. Do you believe that God chooses us or we choose God? And my answer is yes, because I think, I think the Bible teaches both. It’s kind of like if I can use this as an example, Acts chapter 2, verse 23. You’ll see both there in that particular verse. Acts, chapter 2 and verse 23. And this is speaking of the choosing of Jesus for his death. And it says there this man, Peter’s sermon on the day of Pentecost, this man delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God. That’s God chose Jesus to go through this in terms of his crucifixion. But the rest of the verse says “you” – speaking to first century Israel, nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put him to death. So the first part of the verse indicates that God chose Jesus in terms of his death. And the second part of the verse indicates that it was actually the free will of God’s enemies.  In this case, first century Israel that crucified Christ. So there you’re going to see election and free will right there in the same verse, and you’ll see this pattern quite a bit. I mean, do we choose God or does God choose us? And the answer is yes, because I can – I can show you texts which seem to indicate God chooses us and I can show you other texts which indicate that we choose God. It’s sort of like the old example you know, you’re entering heaven. And it says on the outside wall, as you’re entering heaven, the outside gate, “whoever so wills, enter through these gates”.  And you enter through the gates and then you look back behind you and it says, “Welcome you who are chosen from the foundations of the earth” right now how do you how do you reconcile these two? That’s a bit above my pay grade. I don’t have any ability to do it. I just know that the Bible seems to teach both, which shows me that the Bible must come from another time dimension for it to reveal these types of things that the human mind in its finitude has a difficult time grappling with.

Pastor McGowan: [00:50:21] Yeah, another great example of that is Pharaoh, isn’t it? And we see God hardening Pharaoh, but we also see Pharaoh hardening himself. So yeah, we find it in the Scripture and the Bible says the secret things belong to the Lord. So we don’t always know the answers, but we will know the answers one day, won’t we? All right. Thank you so much for calling the program. Back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:50:46] Yes, I would like to compare Hebrews 1:6 with John 3:16 and Hebrews 1:6, it says, And when he brings the first born with the King James version says here and again, when he brings the first begotten into the world, that’s enough on that. The first begotten is the key there. And then John 3:16, of course, it says for God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son. Question is, is the only begotten son in John 3:16 and the first begotten son in Hebrews 1:6? Are they interchangeable in nature? Thank you.

Pastor McGowan: [00:51:28] All right. Thank you for that. Great question. Appreciate you calling the program.

Pastor Woods: [00:51:32] All right. Hebrews 1, verse 6 says, “When he again brings the first born into the world, he says, and let all the angels of God worship him”. So essentially what he’s dealing with here, is that Jesus is higher than the angels, the nation of Israel, the Jewish people. This was written to the Hebrews, had a tendency to put angels on a pedestal, you know, because after all, the law was mediated to them through angels, etcetera. And what the Book of Hebrews is showing is that Christ is higher than the angels. So why would you drift back into Old Testament Judaism when you have the full revelation of Christ? And that’s why he says Jesus is the first born into the world. In other words, he has the rights of the first born.  He is the preeminent one.

And in John 3:16, when it translates that only begotten Son of God, the Greek, there is monogenes. Mono as in Monopoly alone, genes as in species or kind. Jesus is one of a kind because he’s the God man. So I think Hebrews is more getting to the idea that he has the rights of the firstborn. He is the preeminent one. And John 3:16 is talking about he is the God man, 100% God, 100% man as the monogenes.

Pastor McGowan: [00:53:06] Right, so they’re related terms, but they’re not interchangeable necessarily.

Pastor Woods: [00:53:09] Yeah. It’s like those Venn Diagrams, you know, where you have some circles and some and the circle overlaps, the circles overlap and you’re supposed to kind of shade in, you know, the areas where there’s intersection between the two circles so I would say the two terms are highly related, but I don’t think that they’re identically interchangeable, right? They carry with them slightly separate thoughts.

Pastor McGowan: [00:53:35] All right. Well, Pastor, I have another email question that came in. And here’s the question. It says there is a lot of recent news from the government about UFOs. What is the position of Christians in this information and is there anything in the Bible to address this? What are we to believe about this and to explain to others, especially non-Christians?

Pastor Woods: [00:53:59] All right. Well, you know, UFOs, Extraterrestrials, that’s sort of a concept that’s evolutionary when you think about it. Because if life began accidentally here through evolution, then maybe it happened somewhere else in the universe or the galaxy or the solar system and life exists out there somewhere. And maybe those folks are trying to contact us if they’re more evolved than we are to kind of teach us how to, you know, attain the next level of evolution. So you have to understand that when people start talking about UFOs, it’s they’ve already bought into the theory of evolution. And the book of Romans, chapter 8, verse 20 and verse 22 says, Adam’s sin affected the whole Creation. So, this earth is the centerpiece of everything. And so with that in mind, I don’t think that there are other life forms out there in outer space somewhere. What I believe extraterrestrials are (is) angels. The Book of Revelation, chapter five, verse 11, says that there are myriads and myriads of angels. And we know from Revelation 12, verse 4 and verse 7 that one-third of that angelic realm fell with Satan.  Satan – John 8 verse 44, is the father of lies. And he actually masquerades as an angel of light. And there’s nothing more that Satan would like than to get you to think that you’re talking to some sort of extraterrestrial or ascended master who’s teaching us about the next how we can evolve further by adopting globalism or something like that. You think you’re talking to some kind of higher evolved being extraterrestrial, but you’re really talking to a demon. And that’s how I interpret a lot of these phenomena that people are wrapped up in called UFOs. You know, Paul the apostle in the book of Galatians chapter 1, verses 8 and 9 talks about even if an angel materializes before you and preaches unto you a different gospel then he is to be accursed. So Satan comes as an angel of light giving false information. And I think all this talk about UFOs and extraterrestrials is sort of de-sensitizing the world to come intact, really, with fallen angels masquerading as extraterrestrials. In fact, Jesus, when he gave the signs of the end of the age in Luke chapter 21, verse 11 in the Olivet discourse, he talked as about as one of the signs of the end of the age. He talked about strange events in the skies. And so that’s where I put the whole category of UFOs. What do you do with UFOs?

Pastor McGowan: [00:57:03] I consider the whole idea of UFOs doctrines, the doctrines of demons. Actually, that’s where I would place that. Because, again, I think what you said about, you know, Satan appearing as an angel of light, it’s very interesting that so many of the UFO sightings are sightings of lights that they can’t explain. So perhaps there’s a connection there. All right. I have another email question for you, Pastor. This one says, If those in white robes in Revelation 7:9 are the tribulation Saints, who are the souls who have been martyred in Revelation 6:9, also the ones in Chapter 7 are wearing white robes, but those in chapter 6 are given white robes. But it doesn’t say they are wearing them. Does this mean Chapter 6 Souls have no body to wear the robes?

Pastor Woods: [00:57:55] I would say the folks both in Revelation 6, verse 9 and Chapter 7, verse 9 are a group of people that we call the Tribulation Saints. And I think it was in our last program we said we had to be careful with the word saints because it could have three different meanings. Old Testament Saints, Church Age Saints or Tribulation Saints. So these are folks that are converted to Christ, I would think, via the 144,000 Jewish evangelists right after the in the tribulation period itself, after the Church of Jesus Christ has already been raptured to heaven. So when that first group, Revelation 6, verse 9, is given a white robe, I would take that as well. They’re given it to wear, you know, the folks in Revelation 7, verse 9 appear to be wearing their white robes. Revelation 6, verse 9, they’re given their white robes so that they can wear them. And so that raises an interesting question. How can they wear a robe when the resurrection of Tribulation martyrs does not happen until Revelation 20, verses 4 and 5, the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom. Well, there’s a very strong argument that before the resurrection, the believer has a pre-resurrection body. And theologians and commentators are divided on this. But, you know, you can’t put a robe on someone who has no body at all. That really doesn’t make any sense. So perhaps prior to the Resurrection of Tribulation martyrs at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom, people have God’s people have when they’re martyred, some sort of pre-resurrection body. You remember Luke chapter 16, verse 24, Remember the rich man who died and went into Hades and he called for Lazarus to do something for him. It’s kind of interesting. In verse 24, it says, He cried out and said, Father Abraham have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger, isn’t that a body part interesting, in water and cool off my tongue.  That’s a body part.  For I am in agony in these flames. So, and that, I believe, is occurring before the resurrection of unsaved people at the end of the millennial kingdom and what’s called the Great white throne judgment. And so it looks like prior to the resurrection of the unsaved. They received some kind of pre resurrection body. And I would say prior to the resurrection of the tribulation martyrs, Revelation 6, verse 9, they’re given a robe to wear because they have some kind of pre resurrection body, a body that they have as they’re awaiting their final resurrection body.

Pastor McGowan: [01:00:54] Amen Well, ladies and gentlemen, guess what? It’s time to end the show. And we want to thank you so very much for taking the time to call the program this evening. God bless you. We pray you have a wonderful week. And be sure and tune in next time for a KHCB Question and Answer program. God bless and good night.