KHCB Broadcast – Pastor’s Q & A – April 20, 2023

KHCB Broadcast – Pastor’s Q & A – April 20, 2023
• Dr. Andy Woods • April 20, 2023 • KHCB Radio


KHCB – 04-20-2023 – Full Program Transcript


Announcer: [00:00:09] Good evening. The time is now 9:30 Central time. And we welcome you to our weekly Question and Answers program. A program where you can call us with your questions about the Bible, a scripture or the Christian way of life. Our guests will answer the question for you live on the air. Tonight’s guests are Dr. Andy Woods, Senior Pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church. He’s also president of the Chafer Theological Seminary. The church is located at 401 Matlage Way in Sugar Land, Texas. That’s right off of Highway 6 and Brooks street. Dr. Woods has authored and contributed to many Christian books and theological journals. He speaks on a variety of topics at Christian conferences and churches. He’s joined tonight by Dr. Jim McGowan, Associate pastor of Sugar Land Bible Church.

You can find the church website is and you can also find Pastor Woods and Pastor McGowan on Pastors Point of View on YouTube and Rumble. They discuss current issues and prophecy updates. You can find them on YouTube (PPOV) and Rumble, Andy Woods and Andy Woods Bible Studies. If you’re calling from inside the Houston listening area, you can dial (832) 922-4444. That’s (832) 922-4444. If you’re calling from around the KHCB network outside the Houston area, you can dial (877) 999-5422. That’s (877) 999-5422. Or if you’d rather email your question to us, you can send that to questions. That’s plural and it will appear on our computer screen here in the studio and we’ll forward it to our guests. We ask that you not mention any denominations or personal names, because our aim tonight is to answer questions relating to the Bible. And now to get us started, here are our guests

Pastor McGowan: [00:02:48] All right, welcome again listening friends to KHCB’s Question and Answer program. We’re excited to be back with you again this evening to take your Bible questions. And as always, we’re here to answer your Bible questions, imagine this, by going to the Bible, because the Bible is God’s Holy Word and the only emphasis on the word only. They’re only inspired, authoritative revelation of everlasting truth that encompasses everything we need for life and godliness on this side of heaven. And our prayer this evening is that you will expect to hear from God and expect to hear Him speak to you personally through His word this evening, and that you’ll praise and thank him for the answers he provides you. Now, just before we go to the phones, please remember our three on-air directives. First of all, please keep your on-air time to one question only. Secondly, please also remember to turn the volume down before we bring you on the air. And thirdly, once you’ve shared your question, please hang up so the next caller will have a free line to call in. So we really appreciate your cooperation with that. Let me give the phone numbers one more time. The local number to call if you’d like to call your question in is 832-922-4444. If you’re outside the local listening area, you can call toll free at 877-999-5422. But if you would prefer to send your question in by way of email, you can do that by sending your email. Two questions with an s, All right. So as we start off this evening, let’s start with something from our our mailbag shall we? Okay. This questioner says, Is it theologically correct to say “thank you, Jesus” or “help me Jesus”, since that is a prayer, but we’re supposed to pray to God in Jesus name by the Holy Spirit?

Pastor Woods: [00:04:46] Okay. Yeah, that’s a great question. I think the general rule of prayer is you pray to God the Father, you know, remember the disciples prayer, our Father who art in heaven. You pray to God, the Father through God, the Son. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, the life. No man comes to the father but through me. And then you pray under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Remember Paul in Romans 8 oh around verses 26. And following that, the spirit makes intercessions for us and groans for us in ways we can’t understand. So we pray to God the Father, through God the Son under the guidance of God the Holy Spirit. You know, and that’s a general rule. However, when you go into the Scripture, you’ll see some exceptions to the rule. Stephen And Acts Chapter 7, verse 59, the first martyr of the Christian church just before he died, he prayed directly to Jesus. Yeah. He said, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And in the upper room discourse, Jesus talked about praying in his name a number of times. John 14 verses 13 and 14, John 16 verses 23 and 24, John 16 and verse 26. Let me just slip over there if I could, and just read one of those passages to folks so they can kind of get a flavor of what we’re talking about. Jesus said in John 14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. So, you know, all of that being said, yeah, there’s a general rule we pray to God, the Father through God, the Son, under the guidance of God, the Holy Spirit. But we don’t want to make a, you know, some sort of ironclad law out of it because there are examples in the Bible of people praying to Jesus. So, you know, if in your prayer life you happen to say “thank you, Jesus” or “help me Jesus”, I don’t really see any great, great harm in that.

Pastor McGowan: [00:06:54] I’m sure glad because I say help me Jesus an awful lot. That’s right. I need his help. Well, while we’re waiting for the phones to light up, let’s go back and do another email question here. This individual writes in and says, “What are the duties of deacons and deaconesses? And then what are the qualifications of a deaconess”?

Pastor Woods: [00:07:15] Well, the first issue is I’m not really seeing in the scripture an office of Deaconess. Some people, you know, will try to argue that. But the truth of the matter is, Phoebe is called a deaconess. But there in Romans 16, I think it’s verse 1. She’s not really it doesn’t seem to me to be like she’s in some kind of office of Deacon. She’s just sort of a common servant within the church. And, you know, the very first deacons that you see in the Bible are the office of deacons being raised up in Acts 6 verses 1 through 7, and you’ll discover that they’re all the office holders there were occupied by men. So I’m not really seeing this Office of Deaconess the way some see it.  I see a gender restriction on the office of Pastor Teacher. I see a gender restriction on the Office of Elder. And, you know, arguably there’s a gender restriction on the office of Deacon. It’s not to say that women have no place in ministry. They have a great place to play in ministry, but they as far as I’m understanding, the Bible, they’re not office holders. They’re servants within the church. What are the duties of a deacon? Well, I think the main duty is right there in Acts chapter 6, verses 1 through 7, where there was sort of a scuttlebutt related to the distribution of food to widows.

Pastor Woods: [00:08:52] Some people felt they were being overlooked and everybody was trying to drag the apostles into that. And God raised up a new office called the Office of Deacon. And it’s basically said there that we will take on this service project, thereby freeing up the apostles to pursue the ministry of the Word of God in prayer. So you’ll see that around Acts Chapter 6, verse 4. So that’s what a deacon does. They kind of remove some of the more arduous or dare I say, I don’t know if this is the right choice of words, but menial tasks. I don’t know if any tasks within the church is menial, but there’s just things in the church that have to get done of a manual nature. And so they take on those roles and that frees up the leadership to pursue what they’re called to do – the Ministry of Prayer and the Word of God. So that’s basically what a deacon does. And as far as the qualifications for a deacon, how do you become a deacon who can be nominated to be a deacon? You’ll find that in 1st Timothy 3 verses 8 through 13. The qualifications for Elder are in verses 1 through 7, but Deacon is in verses 8 through 13, and they’re basically moral requirements. Their character has to be not perfect, but it has to be progressing into Christ’s likeness.

Pastor McGowan: [00:10:13] Amen, great answer, Pastor. Thank you so much for that. Well, I see that we have someone waiting on line, so let’s take this time to go to the phones. Thank you so much for calling the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods?

Caller: [00:10:25] Doctor Woods. Doctor McGowan. How are you guys tonight?

Pastor McGowan: [00:10:28] Excellent. How are you?

Caller: [00:10:29] Good, I’m good. Okay. So I’ve been struggling with my confidence and my salvation lately. And I you know, I listen to Dr. Woods all the time live and, you know, past sermons and teachings, and I follow everything. And, you know, I’ve been reading 1st John, you know, the book and over and over and over again, it says, you know, he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God is from God. And he who confesses, whoever confesses is from God. And, you know, I believe I really believe that Jesus was persecuted. He lived. He was persecuted. He was crucified. He was buried. And he literally resurrected and ascended to Heaven, to the right hand of the Father. So but then I start reading stuff on the Internet and people talking about real saving faith and the book of James and works. And I just get I get rattled. And I’m just wondering if Dr. Woods can just kind of hang up and listen, maybe just kind of tell me if I have the right saving faith. I mean, I’m not a – I’m not the kind of person that goes around saying Jesus this and Jesus that all the time. I just I’m just kind of a quiet guy. I keep to myself and I don’t know, I just kind of wanted to, you know, talked about all the time and has asked a synonym for believe. And I don’t know, it just kind of I need a pep talk, I guess, is what I’m saying. And so I’ll hang up and listen well.

Pastor McGowan: [00:12:13] Well you called the right program because you’re going to get the best pep talk you can get, brother. And let me just thank you so much for actually articulating that question, because I promise you, there are people listening who have the very same question. So thank you so much for that. Pastor, how would we handle this issue of confidence?

Pastor Woods: [00:12:29] Well, I mean, the first thing to do is to take your eyes off yourself and your performance or lack thereof and place them on Jesus and his promises, because he has made you promises that you’re in the Father’s hand and nothing can take you out. You’re in His hand. You’ll see that in John 10 verse, roughly, verses 27 through 29. So your position is secure. The second thing to understand is the 3 tenses of salvation, because what people do frequently is they take something related to growth, sanctification, the middle tense of salvation, and they drag it into justification. So justification is the 1st tense of salvation where we have been saved from the penalty of sin at the point of faith alone in Christ alone. And that’s a one-time deal. John 5 verse 24, It happens at a punctilious point in time where we trust in Christ for salvation and we’re transferred from death to life. Then God says, Okay, now that you’re born, it’s time to grow. And that’s what we call the middle-tense of salvation, progressive sanctification. And what’s happening in that tense is we’re gradually being delivered from sin’s power under God’s resources. And so unlike tense 1 tense 2 is more of a process.

Pastor Woods: [00:13:53] And quite frankly, there can be ups and downs in tense 2 and then glorification is tense 3 where it’s either at the rapture or at death, where we’re out of these current bodies as they currently exist with their sin nature. And we’ll be in a place of glorification and we’ll be delivered from sin’s presence. So what’s happening to you now is you’re being delivered from sin’s power and the book of 1st John and the book of James that you quoted, those are all there to help you in tense number 2. They have nothing to do with tense number 1. And so, what – Because people aren’t delineating these three tenses properly and they’re teaching, what they’re doing is they’re yanking stuff out of tense 2 and dragging into tense 1 and acting like, gosh, if you’re not progressing in sanctification, then somehow tense number 1 is eradicated. And that’s simply not the way the Bible is set up. And so don’t let people, you know, convince you that, oh, you’re not a Christian because you’re not doing as well as you could based on the exhortations in James or 1st John. I mean, what those mean is you’re not growing the way you should, but it doesn’t mean you haven’t been born.

Pastor Woods: [00:15:11] And there’s a lot of people in the world that are born, but they’re not developing correctly. And because they’re not developing correctly, that doesn’t mean they’re not they’re suddenly not born anymore. So that’s true in the spiritual world. I mean, you’re spiritually born again.  Now God says grow. And if you have “ups” doesn’t mean, oh, I’m saved today and “downs” oh, I’m not saved today. What it means is I’m struggling in an area of growth as a born, spiritually born person. So you can’t really develop an assurance of salvation the way I’m describing it, unless you start to learn the 3 tenses of salvation. I do recommend the little book by Dennis Rosser called Salvation in Three Time Zones. You can probably get that through Duluth Bible Church. I mean, that’s a very helpful booklet because it will help you see what scriptures go with which tense, and you have to think correctly on this, or you spend the rest of your life wondering if you’re really a Christian or not. Instead of wondering, Am I growing the way I should as a Christian?

Pastor Woods: [00:16:20] Would you add anything to that?

Pastor McGowan: [00:16:21] You know, I just I just think that the Bible also tells us that we are to take into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. And I know in my own life, when I struggled at early on in my Christian walk with my assurance of salvation, and I realized that if I would go to the Word of God and meditate on what it says and the promises that Jesus himself has given me, to give me eternal life and focus on that, that that would take care of the issues that I would have with regards to trust, if you will. There are many voices out there that want to pull us away from what Jesus has said. And I just say, let’s go back and find out what Jesus said and let’s put our faith and trust in that. Amen. All right. Thank you so much again for that call. We do appreciate that. And back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. And we appreciate you calling the program. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening.

Caller: [00:17:18] Yes, I was. Matthew, chapter 4 when Jesus was led into the wilderness by the devil. And he told him that, you know, you can’t live by bread alone, but by every word out of the mouth of God. What’s he talking about himself? Or was he talking about the Father?

Pastor McGowan: [00:17:40] All right. Was Jesus talking about himself there or talking about the father? Great question. Thank you for calling. And we’ll see if we can’t give you a good explanation. God bless you.

Pastor Woods: [00:17:49] Well, you know, certainly Christ is called the bread of life in John’s gospel. But here I don’t think he’s talking about himself, per se, and I don’t think he’s talking about the Father, per se. I think he’s talking about the scripture because he’s quoting the book of Deuteronomy. I believe this is Deuteronomy chapter 8, verse 3. It says, “But man shall not live on bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God”. So to me, he’s talking about God’s word and he’s just responding to Satan there in this temptation command these stones to become bread. And he says, you know, what’s more important is the scripture and my obedience to the scripture at this point. I think I think that’s the primary meaning.

Pastor McGowan: [00:18:38] Yeah, I think it’s interesting in the context there you see Jesus has been fasting for 40 days and Satan comes to him to tempt him according to his flesh. And Jesus responds according to the spirit, doesn’t he? Amen. All right. Thank you so much for calling the program. Back to the phones we go. Thank you so much for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:18:58] Yes, Thank you so much. I love the show, by the way.  I wanted to ask about Matthew 24:36, where it shows about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father on that particular scripture. It also says for nor the son, it says some manuscripts leave that out. So I’m just curious if Jesus is God, and I believe that to be so. How is it that, you know, I know he’s eternal and he sees what’s ahead in the future? How will he not know the day or the hour at that time? I mean, wouldn’t He be able to I mean, I know he set aside his deity while he was human in a way, but or set aside his willingness to know what that day and time is only for the Father to know. How is it that Jesus himself, who is God, wouldn’t know the day or the hour if he turned on the future? I mean, if somebody is going to be like, Oh, Jesus, return, I’m sure you’d find it in some sort of, you know, even like a text message or something like that. How would he not know?

Pastor McGowan: [00:20:14] That’s a great question. And I appreciate you calling the program this evening. And I bet you there are other people that would like to hear the answer to that. So, Pastor, we’ll throw that over to you.

Pastor Woods: [00:20:22] Well, I think a key to something like this is to understand that Jesus had two natures. He had a human nature and a divine nature. I mean, he’s always had the, you know, an eternally existent deity. But what was added at the point of the Virgin conception was humanity, you know, was added to eternally existent deity. And he became the God man, 100% God, 100% man. And so some of the times in the Gospels, Jesus is speaking out of his divine nature. Like he’ll say, you know, John, chapter 1 concerning Nathaniel. You know, I saw you while you were sitting under the fig tree. So he’s speaking there as omniscient. And then he said, “Behold, an Israelite in whom there is no guile”. So he saw his heart. So he’s speaking out of his deity there. But other times in the gospels, same gospel of John that I just quoted from John 1, you go to John 4 and it talks about that he was tired. And John chapter 4 or fatigued. So there he’s not you know, it’s not a statement about his deity. It’s a statement about his humanity. So with that being said, you know, I’m convinced that when Jesus made the statement, you know, no one knows concerning the time of his return, not even himself, he was speaking there out of his humanity. At that point, he really, out of his humanity, didn’t know when he was coming back when, which is an amazing thing when you think about it. In his deity. He if he had spoken out of his deity, he could, you know, look omnisciently into the future and tell you exactly when he was returning. So this is a doctrine that we call the fancy name for this is the Hypostatic Union. The two natures of Christ.

Pastor McGowan: [00:22:17] Yes, amen. Well, it’s interesting, too, that we know that Jesus himself said that he only did those things He saw the Father do. So there was a humbling of himself to the will of the Father. And it just happens that in this instance, apparently it wasn’t God’s will for him to know that at that point in time. So anyway, thank you so much for calling the program. We appreciate that. God bless you. And let’s go back to our emails while we’re waiting for the lines to light back up. Here’s a question that came in in Luke 23:43 Jesus promises the malefactor that they would be together in paradise, but Jesus was going to be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights and every and every one other than Jesus, who is the 1st fruits of them that slept, is going to be in the grave until the coming of the Lord. And then they quote first Corinthians 15:22-23. And I think we’re going to get to a question here in a minute. Most teachers say that the phrase verily, I say unto thee today shalt thou be with me in paradise means the day in which the promise is spoken. But that is impossible. What is the solution?

Pastor Woods: [00:23:19] Well, we have to define what paradise is. And I’m of the view, and this comes from Luke 16 verses 19 through 31, that there was a place that had two compartments. There was a place called Hades, a place of torment. But the other side of it was paradise. And so unbelievers in Old Testament times went to Hades. But those that died in faith of a coming Messiah went into paradise. And so when Jesus says, you know, to the thief on the cross today, you will be with me in paradise, He kept his promise because he took him to that part of the two compartment view that I’m trying to describe to the place of bliss or the place of blessing. So Jesus never broke his word to the penitent thief on the cross. Right now, it is interesting that when you look at Ephesians 4 verses 7 through 10, there’s an argument to be made that in between Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection, he took the blessing part of this two part compartment into the presence of God, the Father in heaven. Yes. And Paul, when he was caught up second Corinthians 12, verses 1 through 4, specifically verse 4, he was caught up to the third heaven. He describes an experience there that he had 14 years earlier. He was caught up to heaven. He says he was caught up to paradise. So I’m of the persuasion that in between Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection, he took the blessing side of the compartment into the presence of God, the Father. But, you know, Jesus never broke his word to the thief on the cross because he went to paradise. And then Jesus eventually, not too long after, took paradise and brought it into the presence of God, the Father in the third heaven. That’s my understanding.

Pastor McGowan: [00:25:21] Amen. That would be mine also. Thank you so much for that question. And I have another email question we can go to. This is looks like a multi-part question. It says, “Esther takes a big risk to come to the presence of the king, even risking her life when she gets that opportunity. Why is she hesitant to tell the king why she has come before him? And then the second part is Haman and his whole family are hanged for his wrongs. Was it fair for his wife and children to be hanged for his mistakes? And finally, the third part is Haman and his whole family.” Oh, it looks like they repeated that. So there’s just two parts to that. All right, Pastor.

Pastor Woods: [00:25:58] Well, the first part of this, Esther, takes a big risk to come to the presence of the king, even risking her own life. When she gets that opportunity, why is she hesitant to tell the king why she has come before him? I mean, you’ll find the answer to that in Esther 4, verse 15, Esther chapter 5, verses 1 and 2, where there was a protocol that she had to follow. And correct me on this, Pastor Jim, didn’t she have to wait for the king to extend the scepter to her?

Pastor McGowan: [00:26:30] Yes, he had to extend the scepter or risk her life, actually.

Pastor Woods: [00:26:35] Okay. And Haman was in that area, too, so she couldn’t just barge in. So that would be the answer, I think, to the first question. And then this other one, Why in the world when God allowed Haman to be hung, I mean, why was his wife hung and his children hung when they really committed no crime? Well, you know, you see this a lot in the Bible. When someone does something, you know, really evil, God oftentimes says, you know, take the person that did the evil and their children and do away with them. So, if you’ll go over for just a minute to the book of Daniel, chapter 6 and verse 24, concerning Daniel being thrown into the lion’s den in the Empire of Persia. I remember Daniel was deceived into, you know, well, circumstances were put into motion where Daniel was now a criminal and had to be thrown into the lion’s den because of prayer. But when that was when Daniel was rescued in the midst of the lion’s den, things reversed. And it says in Daniel 6:24, Then the king gave orders and they brought those men who had maliciously accused Daniel, and they cast them, their children and their wives, into the lion’s den. And they had not reached the bottom of the den before the lions overpowered and overpowered them and crushed all their bones. Now, over in the book of 1st Samuel, chapter 15 and verse 3, you’ll see the exact same kind of thing happening where it says, Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has and do not spare him, but put to death both man and woman and child and infant and ox and sheep and camel and donkey. So you read these and you say, well, this just really isn’t fair. It seems like God is punishing people for crimes they never committed. And what you have to understand is if God had allowed the children to live, the children would have become just like their father. You know, a child of Hitler will grow up and will go from being a little Hitler one day to a big Hitler because of the power that the head of the family has on the children and the wife, because God has given the Father a place of leadership within the home. And if he is moving in a negative direction, he’s going to negatively influence those around him. And so many times in the Bible, God will say because of this, you know, get rid of the children, get rid of the wife all at the same time.

Pastor Woods: [00:29:43] And so that’s my best understanding of that. And there’s a mistake we make. We think, well, human beings are basically good at heart. Well, that’s not what the Bible says. It says we’re sinners by nature. And if we have a particular proclivity to sin and we’re going to be un-repentant about it, God can see that. And, you know, just like in surgery, you try to remove the area of one’s body that’s contaminated, let’s say, with cancer, so it doesn’t spread elsewhere. And that’s essentially what God is doing in some of these texts. And I think that’s what God is doing there with Haman. It’s also an outworking of Genesis 12, verse 3, God says, You know, you came against my family, the nation of Israel, so now I’m going to come against your family. And God, all the way back in Genesis 12, verse 3 promised. And I take this very literally, and I think the rest of the scriptures vindicates this. I’ll bless those who bless you and the one who curses you. I will curse. Would you add anything to that?

Pastor McGowan: [00:30:43] I’m so glad you said that. I had written that down. Okay. I see that at play in the Esther-Haman scenario and also in the Daniel scenario where you had individuals that were attacking the children of Abraham here. And so they were under the curse there. And of course, when you when you mentioned Amalek here in 1st Samuel, you’re dealing with another issue also similar, but not quite the same, because God had told the children of Israel when they went into the Promised land, they were to annihilate Amalek and there were other Canaanites also. And but that wasn’t that wasn’t until after God had given them 400 years to repent. And they fail to do so. So that’s why we see these types of passages in the Bible. All right. Thank you so much for calling for that email again. And I think we have someone waiting on line. So let’s go to the phones.

Pastor Woods: [00:31:31] We got to go to a station break.

Pastor McGowan: [00:31:33] We have a station break. So I guess we better do that. Folks. Stay with us and we’ll be back in just a moment for our prayer time. Thank you.

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Pastor McGowan: [00:32:41] All right. Thank you for staying with us for the second half of the Question and Answer program. As we always do, we like to stop at the top of the hour because we want to pray for the nation. And we would encourage you that if you’re in a position where you can do so, that you just join along with us as we pray. So let’s do that now, shall we? Abba Father, we come to you now in Jesus’ name to lift up our beloved nation to you. We pray that the United States of America will know peace. The true peace which passes all understanding – the peace that can only be found in Christ Jesus. We also pray that the USA will know wisdom – the wisdom from above, which is first pure, then peaceable, undefiled, willing to yield to you and full of mercy. Abba Father, we also ask you to bless those who are in authority over us and that you would shower them with all your goodness and thus lead them into true biblical repentance. That is a change of mind about who Jesus is, your one and only begotten Son, fully God and fully man, the Savior of all those who place their trust, their faith, trust and confidence in Him for the safekeeping of their souls. From the President to the most humble person in the land, may each one hear the truth and respond to it. Abba Father, regarding those who refuse to be saved and refuse to honor you and refuse to walk in righteousness and justice, we pray that their days in office would be few and that you would raise up believers to replace them so that your will, plans and purposes may be realized.

Pastor McGowan: [00:34:35] Abba Father, we ask that true revival would come to America in 2023. We ask that believers would be emboldened to share their faith and that you would fill Bible-based churches with those who have received their testimony and responded to the Gospel. Abba Father, we also ask you to protect the United States of America. Protect her people. Protect our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, the integrity of our Supreme Court and the integrity of our election processes. Abba Father, please also have mercy on all our first responders law enforcement officers, fire and rescue personnel, doctors and nurses, the men and women faithfully serving in our military and all those who put their own lives in jeopardy to save and rescue others. Please guard them from hurt, harm and danger and bring them home safe to their families this evening. Finally, Abba Father, thank you for loving us so much that you do not leave us as we are, but you work within us to conform us moment by moment into the image of your beloved son. Please help us to continue to develop Christ-likeness in our attitudes and actions and remind your children that we are to be ambassadors for Christ and that this Earth is merely our temporary abode until you call us to yourself, to the true home you have prepared for us. This we pray in the name of Jesus, Maranatha, and amen and amen. Well, thank you for taking time to pray with us. And let’s go back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. We appreciate you calling the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods?

Caller: [00:36:38] Hello? Hi. Is it me?

Pastor McGowan: [00:36:40] It’s you. Yes, ma’am. Go for it. Okay.

Caller: [00:36:43] It’s my understanding at one time that David was taking a census and the Lord fussed at him for that. And I was reading in 2nd Samuel chapter 24, verse 1, and it says. And again, the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go number Israel, but am I reading it wrong? He moved David?

Pastor McGowan: [00:37:15] Is that exactly what it says? Or does it say that he moved Satan to to tempt David?

Caller: [00:37:23] Other versions it says he moved and it moved David like his anger. Like the Lord’s anger. This is second Samuel 24, verse 1.

Pastor McGowan: [00:37:35] All right, let me run over there real quick and see if we can read that together here. All right. So in 2nd Samuel 24, verse 1. Now again, the anger of the Lord burned against Israel and it incited David against them to say, go number Israel and Judah. All right. So now we have our context, Pastor.

Pastor Woods: [00:37:57] Well, let’s see here. How’s my microphone doing? There we go. Just having a little difficulty there. And I’m back. Well, this is one of those things where you have to look into the full council of God’s word and remember that the Chronicles books are basically retelling a lot of the same story. But more from an optimistic perspective, leaving out a lot of things like David’s adultery with Bathsheba is left out of the Chronicles books because it’s trying to communicate to the Post-exilic community, you know, positive things as they’re going back into the land to rebuild the temple, etcetera. So although the Samuel books say God moved David or David’s anger moved David, when you look at 1st Chronicles 21 and verse 1, it says, Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel. So it’s almost as if it’s Satan that moved David this direction and God simply allowed it for His purposes. And essentially what was going on there is David is taking the census because he is trusting in human might rather than the power of God. And that’s why God was upset with him, you know, in this particular instance. And it was actually Satan, you know, using David’s sinful impulses and God allowing it to happen, that caused David to take the census. I have a note here in my Ryrie study Bible it says, actually, God permitted Satan to prompt David to take a census of the people, and David insisted on doing it contrary to Joab’s advice, though not inherently wrong, the action demonstrated David’s reliance on numbers of warriors rather than on God. The census took about ten months to complete. So I would just encourage you when you read something in the Samuel books, try to supplement it with what’s in the Book of Chronicles as well to get really the full picture of what’s going on.

Pastor McGowan: [00:40:13] Yeah, One point on this, it’s fascinating to me how God does things because, you know, you read about David and generally David is God’s man and he’s doing what’s right. And of course, Joab was David’s one of his generals. And you see Joab just messing up all the time. But in this instance, God used Joab to rebuke David. Boy, what does that say to us? Yeah, and that’s something. Well, we hope that was helpful to you. God bless you. Thank you for calling the program. Back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:40:47] Hello. It’s hard to tell when – when it’s your turn. I just wanted to offer a commendation to the pastor. I don’t know. I didn’t hear what precipitated his answer back a few questions ago. But regarding the harsh, seemingly harsh discipline that God dealt out to those people that that don’t believe him or don’t honor him or don’t obey and just that he was had the strength to convey that accurately. I know he didn’t write it, but he read it and he stood up for it. And I’m grateful for that and also for covering all the bases that that you did in your prayer. Um, for, for, I mean, basically, that’s just the condition of our country right now. And you addressed it very well. So I wanted to thank you for that. Listen to your program all the time and blessings to you and your families.

Pastor McGowan: [00:41:59] Well, thank you so very much. That is very humbling. And we do appreciate your comments. May God be glorified by everything we say and do. And God bless you, brother. Thanks for calling the program. All right. Let’s see. We got another caller waiting. All right. Let’s go back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:42:19] Yes, this is the sad story of three individuals who were strong believers and one became a homosexual and lived the rest of his life that way and passed away actually in that condition. The other one became a drug addict and persisted in that and also died. The third one is someone who abandoned the faith, is not living a terrible life, but is not in fellowship with the church. So, but these people believed in Jesus Christ in the past, in the earlier part of their lives, and were actually even active in Christian ministry. And it’s a very sad story. So the question is, well, there are several issues here, and I appreciated your strong position on grace, Dr. Woods. But the question is, how do you know if this individual indeed had a saving faith to begin with? That’s what most reformed theologians would say. You know, it was they were not believers to begin with. The other one is somebody told me that Samson apparently died, but it seems like he repented there before he passed away in that condition. David sinned against the Lord, but he repented. Now, this story of these individuals is they they didn’t repent. They died in that condition. And so that’s the question. How what is your perspective on this, Dr. Woods? And then just to wrap up here, my longer words, but allow me the opportunity to also say this. At the end of the Book of Revelation, it says, like outside of the city or outside are, you know, the liars, the you know, it just has a list. I think homosexuals are there people that simply stay outside because of that condition. So putting it all together, what would be your comment? I know this is a long question and it’s a very controversial topic nowadays. You know, there are many people there in the churches that are homosexuals nowadays. So I would like to hear your perspective. Dr. Woods, thank you for listening to my long discourse here. I look forward to hear from you.

Pastor McGowan: [00:45:19] All right. Thank you so very much for your questions. And I think we have a really good Bible answer for you, Pastor.

Pastor Woods: [00:45:26] Well, you’ve got, you know, situations where people get saved, allegedly, and then they go into a lifestyle that looks unsaved – like an unsaved person, and then they die in that state. And the question is, I mean, were they ever Christians to begin with now? Arminianism would say they lost their salvation. He mentioned reformed theology, or most Calvinistic interpretations would say they never had salvation. But there’s another possibility here. You could be dealing with somebody who actually is saved, but they just went back to the sin nature. Now, when a Christian who is authentically saved goes back to the sin nature and lives in sin, are they still saved? I think if they truly trusted in Christ for salvation, then they are saved. I’m going to base that on 2nd Timothy 2 and verse 13, which says, If we are faith. We meaning Paul’s, you know, counting himself with the group. If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself. So there is that possibility that someone could be saved, but they really don’t show a lifestyle. You know, in keeping with salvation. Now is a person… How do you know? He wants to know? How do you know if someone that claims to be saved and goes back to a sinful lifestyle and lives in it? How do you know if they were really saved at all? And the answer is you don’t know.

Pastor Woods: [00:47:01] Because I can’t look at a heart. Only God can measure a heart. I’m just saying. I’m just saying it’s a possibility. It’s possible that someone trusts Christ and goes back to sin and lives in it. It’s completely possible that that person is a Christian. On the other end of the stick, it’s completely possible that the person maybe never trusted in Christ at all. And whether a person is one or the other, only God can tell. This idea that you have to repent of sin before you die to prove you’re saved, that’s just flatly and patently contradicted by the scripture. Ananias and Sapphira did not finish well. And they suffered what we would call maximum divine discipline. You’ll find that in Acts 5:1 through 11. And people say, well, Ananias and Sapphira were never saved. Well, that’s that’s nonsense, because it says there in the Book of Acts chapter 5, verses 1 through 11, the great I think it’s verse 11, actually, the great fear spread throughout the whole church. In other words, one of their own just got taken out by God. They were disciplined to the point of death, although their souls, you know, went to heaven. Another example of people that didn’t finish well are people in the book of 1st Corinthians Chapter 11 who were drunk and disorderly at the Lord’s table.  And Paul the apostle says, for this reason, some of you are sick and some of you have fallen asleep. That’s what we call maximum divine discipline. And Paul, there never indicates that, Well, the reason these people didn’t finish well in their lives is because they never trusted Christ at all. So you have this possibility of people that are saved that really don’t persevere in good works or faith, and yet they’re under the grace of God.  Because what God has in the door is God’s grace. And what keeps us in the door is God’s grace. We’re not on probation once we get saved. I mean, if we were on probation, it wouldn’t be by God’s grace anymore. And so that’s sort of the way I look at issues like this. Either the, either the person living in sin and dying in that condition never trusted Christ or it’s kind of an Ananias and Sapphira situation. It’s kind of a 1st Corinthians Chapter 11 situation. And whether it’s one or the other, you know, the person never trusted in Christ or, you know, maybe the person did trust in Christ, but just didn’t live accordingly. Only God knows the human heart. And so those are the biblical parameters, the biblical options, the best. I understand it.

Pastor McGowan: [00:49:56] Year and I think we have to come back to what you said earlier about the 3 tenses of salvation. Again, that many times we judge people who are in the middle tense of their salvation experience and we make that the first tense. We get everything out of order and causes all kinds of problems for us and we become fruit inspectors.  God never called us to be fruit inspectors.

Pastor Woods: [00:50:19] Sister so-and-so. Miss Choir practice last Wednesday. I guess she’s not. I guess she’s not saved. Yeah, well, that’s. That’s terrible to say something like that. That’s Sister So-and-so may be dealing with a growth issue rather than a birth issue.

Pastor McGowan: [00:50:34] Well, and then, too, if we keep in mind that there are people who get saved but then are never in a position where they’re exposed to good, sound, solid Bible teaching, therefore they’re stunted in their growth. And so we have to keep these things in mind, I think.

Pastor Woods: [00:50:51] Yeah. And I can show you, as I said at the top of the show, many examples of people in the physical world that are born, but they’re malnourished. They’re mal-developing. It doesn’t mean they were never born, because once you’re born, you’re born. That’s right. Period. So let’s you know, the problem I’m having with Calvinism and Arminianism is they just give you one option. That’s right. In situations like this, Amen so and so lost salvation or so and so never had salvation. And I’m saying, let’s not be too quick. There’s a middle there’s a middle way here.

Pastor McGowan: [00:51:27] Amen, brother. I’m with you on that one. Well, I hope that was helpful for you. Thank you so much for calling the program. Pastor, I have another email question that came in, says here “Were there any Gentiles who were saved before Jesus came to Earth and died on the cross? If not, does this mean all of the Gentiles that lived before Jesus Christ did not go to heaven?” Thank you so much.

Pastor Woods: [00:51:50] Okay. Well, I’m of the perspective that the personal gospel is announced. Personal gospel of salvation as early as Genesis 3, verse 15. There’s a knowledge that there’s a coming one who is going to ultimately crush the serpent’s head – Satan’s head. And I think this was passed down through oral tradition. And I think it was readily available. And I think people that trusted in that in the Old Testament age, in essence, were saved. Whether they were Hebrews or, you know, or not, Hebrews. And, you know, Genesis 15, verse 6, says, Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness. Well, what did he actually believe? He believed God’s promise of seed. Well, a lot of people say, well, he just believed God’s promise that he’d have a lot of children one day. Study what Paul says of seed in Galatians 3, verse 16. Paul says he didn’t believe in seeds. He believed in seed. Singular. He believed that there was a coming Messiah. Now, where did he get that idea from? Obviously, he ultimately got it from Genesis 3, verse 15. So I think anybody that believed that was saved. Now, Abraham was justified on credit. It was credited to him for righteousness because it hadn’t been paid for yet at the cross of Calvary. And Abraham was looking forward by faith to a savior whose name he did not know.

Pastor Woods: [00:53:28] Now we’re saved the same way, except we’re looking backward. We know His name and it’s already been paid for. But the plan of salvation is the same. Now, this concept that I’m explaining isn’t well developed in the Old Testament, because the Old Testament is dealing mostly with the nation of Israel. National issues in the Mosaic covenant. This issue of personal salvation, there’s not a lot of Old Testament scripture on it, but Paul was confident enough in it that he, when he preaches his gospel of salvation by faith alone in Romans 4, he anchors his case in several Old Testament texts. So I think there were Gentiles that were saved, based on what I’m saying in the Old Testament time. I put Noah in that category. He was a gentile because he lived before the nation of Israel even existed. He’s saved because he’s in the Hall of Faith. I would put Ruth the Moabitess into this category. I would put the Queen of Sheba, who traveled that great distance to sit at Solomon’s feet and learn of his wisdom. I would put her in that category. And these are all people that had some kind of knowledge of Genesis 3, verse 15, and whether they’re Jew or Gentile and they experience personal salvation.

Pastor McGowan: [00:54:45] Yeah, I’d add Rahab to that and I’d probably add Naaman also. So there are a number of examples, I think, of Gentiles that were saved.

Pastor Woods: [00:54:54] And maybe Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4. That’s possible.

Pastor McGowan: [00:54:59] Amen. All right. Thank you so much for calling the program or actually writing in, I should say. And I do see we have someone waiting on the phone. So let’s go back to the phones. Thank you so much for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:55:11] Yeah. Dr. Woods. Dr. McGowan, it’s Dave again. I’ve been wondering. I wanted to ask Dr. Woods this for a long time about the thief in the night thing. I could have sworn I heard watching one of Dr. Woods videos and that the Rapture or the Revelation series that the Thief in the Night in Thessalonians is a good thing because the good people are taken and the thief at night in Matthew 24, I think is it’s a bad thing because the bad people are taken at the end of the tribulation. I’m just wondering if maybe you could just….

Pastor McGowan: [00:55:55] All right. I think we got the gist of your question. So you’re wanting us to explain the difference between the Matthew Passage and the Thessalonians passage, I believe. So, Pastor, can you address that?

Pastor Woods: [00:56:07] Yeah, well, you know, it’s common for people to look at Thief in the Night imagery as the Rapture, but that can’t be because the Rapture is a good thing. It’s a happy thing.  It’s the blessed hope of the church. Comfort one another with these words. 1st Thessalonians 4:13 through 18 the when a thief breaks into your house in the middle of the night, that’s an unhappy thing. It takes you by surprise. So thief in the night language typically does not apply to the Rapture. It applies to what the unsuspecting world will experience once the judgment of God hits planet Earth after the Rapture has already occurred, it will take the inhabitants of the earth off guard like a thief in the night. Because they’ve it’s not that they haven’t been warned, but they’ve rejected the message. It’s analogous to what Jesus says in Matthew 24:38 and 39, where he says, look, they did not understand until the day Noah entered the ark and then the flood waters came and took them all away. So it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. So that’s where to put the thief in the night imagery. He asked about Matthew 24. I think it’s verses 40 and 41 – one taken, the other left. And people typically look at that and say, well that’s the rapture, the one taken, but just study out the context.

Pastor Woods: [00:57:36] You’ll see the one taken is taken into judgment and the one left behind enters the kingdom. So to be left behind is good in Matthew 24, verses 40 and 41 to be taken as bad. That’s the opposite of the rapture. When the rapture happens before the 7 year tribulation period even starts, the being taken is good and being left behind is bad. It’s the opposite in Matthew 24 verses 40 and 41. So that that passage there is dealing with the unsaved people that well, saved and unsaved, that are on the earth at the end of the tribulation period that happened to survive it.  Jesus is going to do a judgment for them. And if you are an unsaved person, then you’re going to be taken off the earth and taken into Hades immediately. But if you happen to be a believer in Christ at that time, then you will not. We will be left behind to enter the kingdom, you know, enter the kingdom. Matthew 25, 31 through 46 sheep and goat judgment to enter the kingdom in your mortal body. So you just have to figure out what concepts go with which. Matthew 24, 40 and 41 doesn’t go with the rapture. Thief in the night imagery doesn’t go with the rapture either.


Pastor McGowan: [00:59:02] Amen. All right. Thank you so much for calling the program. Let’s see if we can sneak one more caller in. Oh, do we have to or we’ll try to get two more in. And thank you for calling the program. What’s your Bible question for Doctor Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:59:15] I have a question about what Dr. Woods was talking about just a little while ago, about the Messiah appearing in 3:15, Genesis 315, where the man will crush the serpent. And yeah, I mean, that’s what that means, I guess, you know, that means. But the question that I have has to do with people like Abraham and maybe, you know, as you’re making reference to the Queen of Sheba.  I mean, are you saying that they actually believed in the Messiah as based on some kind of oral tradition having been passed down? Or is it just some, you know, vague, pious belief? I’m not sure I quite understand. And then there’s one other thing. Well, it’s too long. Never mind. Go ahead. This one is great.

Pastor McGowan: [01:00:13] All right. Thank you so much for calling the program. Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [01:00:16] Well, I think there was a knowledge. You know, we need to give more credit to the spread of the gospel in Old Testament, the Old Testament age. It was far more accessible. People were far more aware of it than I think we give credence to. And I think that’s why it’s mentioned early in the Bible. Genesis 3, verse 15. The idea is it was passed on faithfully. And so people had access to it and they could believe it or they could not believe it. Just like today, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is readily available. You can believe it or you can not believe it. And I believe that there are many in the Old Testament time period, Jews and Gentiles, Abraham being one. You know that happened, too. Believe it. And so when Abraham believed promises of seed, when you factor in Galatians 3, verse 16, he didn’t just believe the generic promises of children, he believed in a seed coming from his line, who would be the embodiment of Genesis 3, verse 15, Abraham, looking forward to that was justified by faith alone.

Pastor McGowan: [01:01:26] Yeah, and that was more commonly understood, I think, is what you’re saying. And I agree with you on that point.

Pastor Woods: [01:01:30] And the reason the Old Testament really doesn’t develop this like we would like it to if we’re curious about this, is because the Old Testament is dealing with national Israel. It’s not really a document dealing with personal salvation. Now, personal salvation is there because Paul, when he teaches his concept of faith alone in Christ, alone in Romans 4, he strings together Old Testament passages, but those Old Testament passages are kind of few and far between because the Old Testament is more dealing with God’s dealings with a nation under the Mosaic Covenant. So, I hope that helps a little bit.

Pastor McGowan: [01:02:14] All right. And let’s get this final caller in. You get the number. Thanks for calling the program. What’s your Bible question this evening?

Speaker11: [01:02:23] Yes, I’m going to try to make it as fast as I can.  Daniel 11 verses 41 and 44. What I understand is that some countries are going to be able to escape whatever he’ll be doing and that it will on 44 it says that many will he’ll destroy many but it doesn’t say all. So what I’m understanding that some countries are going to be able to escape his terribleness that he’ll be doing. Am I right or wrong?

Pastor McGowan: [01:03:16] All right. Well, thank you for calling the program. If you’d like to go ahead and hang up and listen for your answer. We appreciate that. And Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [01:03:23] Yeah, I mean, this is describing one of the great military campaigns, you know, of the Antichrist in the future tribulation period. And it says in verse 41, he will also enter the beautiful land and many countries will fall, but these will be rescued out of his hand. And he mentions 3 – Edom, Moab and foremost, the sons of Ammon. Now, when you look at where all those are situated, Ammon, Moab and Edom, you’re basically talking about modern day Jordan. And so I find this very interesting because Revelation 12 says the woman or Israel wants the temple is desecrated, is going to flee into the wilderness where she’s going to be protected for the second half of the tribulation period. And a lot of people like myself believe she’s going to flee to Petra in Jordan. And the reason she flees there is because of these verses that these countries in the Antichrist final military campaign, which is what’s really being described here in verses 40 through 45, somehow doesn’t get his hooks you know, into that, into that Jordan area. And so that’s where Israel is going to have – be a receive relief, be sort of a refugee.

Pastor McGowan: [01:04:53] It says that they will be rescued out of his hand. Well, you have to be in the hand before you can be rescued out of the hand. So I think that kind of bears witness to what you were trying to say there also.  All right. Well, we hope that was helpful to you. Thank you for calling the program. Thank you to all of you for calling the program. God bless you. Have a great week. And be sure to tune in next time for KHCB’s Question and Answer program. God bless.

Announcer: [01:05:29] Good evening. And once again, thank you so much for participating and listening to our weekly Question and Answers program. Tonight’s guests have been Dr. Andy Woods and Dr. Jim McGowan. Andy Woods is Senior pastor at Sugarland Bible Church, located at 401 Matlage Way in Sugarland, Texas. The church website is Church is located right off of Highway 6 and Brooke Street. Don’t forget, you can tune in next Tuesday for the pastor’s study. And as the Lord tarries we will return again next Thursday. Thank you so much for listening.