Transcript

KHCB – 03-16-2023 – Full Program Transcript

Announcer: [00:00:20] Good evening. Welcome to our weekly Question and Answers program, a program where you can call us with your questions about the Bible, about a scripture or the Christian way of life. And our guests will answer that question for you live on the air. Tonight’s guests are Dr. Andy Woods, Senior Pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church. He’s also president of the Chafer Theological Seminary. Dr. Woods has authored and contributed to many Christian books and three theological journals and speaks on a variety of topics at Christian conferences and churches. He’s also joined tonight with Dr. Jim McGowan, Associate Pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church. Their website is SLBC.org. And the church is located at 401 Matlage Way. That’s right off of Highway 90 and University Boulevard in Sugar Land. They also have the Pastor’s Point of View. You can find it on YouTube and Rumble. You can find many of his articles and conference seminars at his website Andy Woods Ministry. If you’re calling from inside the Houston listening area, you can reach us at 832-922-4444. That’s 832-922-4444. If you’re calling from around the KHCB network outside the Houston area, you can dial 877-999-5422. That’s 877-999-5422. Or if you’d rather email your questions to us, you can send that to questions with an S – that’s plural Questions@ KHCB.org and it’ll appear on our computer screen here in the studio, and we’ll forward it to our guests. We ask that you not mention any denominations or personal names, because our aim tonight is to answer questions relating to the Bible. And now here are our guests, Dr. Andy Woods and Dr. Jim McGowan.

Pastor McGowan: [00:02:59] Well, welcome listening friends. Dr. Woods, brother Noah, our producer and call screener, and I are especially excited to be back with you again this evening to take your Bible questions because it affords us another opportunity to dive into God’s holy Word, the Bible, and seek out its glorious treasures. And since God’s holy Word is the only inspired, authoritative revelation of everlasting truth and contains everything we need for life and godliness, the more time we can spend in it, the more God can use it to conform us to the image of His beloved son. So, our prayer this evening is that you will expect to hear God speak personally to you through His Word. And when he does, that you’ll remember to praise and thank him for the answers he provides you. And just before we go to the phones, let’s let me remind you of our three on air directives. First of all, please keep it to one question only. Secondly, turn the volume down before we bring you on the air. That really helps cut down the feedback and background noises. And number three, once you’ve shared your question, please be so kind as to go ahead and hang up so that the next caller can have a free line to call in. And again, the phone numbers are local – 832-922-4444. Outside the local area you can call toll free again 877-999-5422 and if you’d prefer to email the station with a question, we’ll get it and you can email it to questions with an s – Questions@ KHCB.org. So let’s go to the phones. Good evening and welcome to the program. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods this evening?

Pastor Woods: [00:04:50] We don’t have any yet.

Pastor McGowan: [00:04:51] No questions. Well, since we don’t have any questions, that gives us a great opportunity to talk about some of the things that you’re doing Pastor. He mentioned the pastor’s Point of View program. Can you tell us a little bit about that while we’re waiting for our caller?

Pastor Woods: [00:05:06] Yeah, that’s basically a show that we do reacting to current events. You know, usually it’s the kind of thing that you don’t hear over the pulpit, you know, specific news items. So we decided to create a forum where we could talk about those kinds of things. So ever since the whole COVID situation hit, we’ve been doing what are called prophecy updates, meaning we’re trying to track the major trends in our world and how they’re fitting into, you know, major themes or categories that the Bible prophetically speaks of. And we try to do that. We try to record those on Thursday and make them available on Friday. And so if people go to my YouTube channel, Andy Woods Ministries on YouTube, they can find tomorrow morning there’ll be a Pastor’s Point of View number 246 posted. And that’s basically how we do it. And usually, usually Pastor Jim is in the studio with me as we talk about these things reacting to the headlines. And we also have those available on the Andy Woods Ministries Rumble account, the Andy Woods Ministries website at Andy Woods ministries.org. And we also have an app, Andy Woods Ministries app. And so if you go to the App Store and just put in Andy Woods Ministries, you’ll be able to get our app. And so we’ve got them on a lot of different forums. And so those things are out there for people to, you know, listen to or watch. We also have it on podcast format. Just go to wherever it is you get your podcasts and type in Andy Woods Ministries into your search engine. And you know, that’s kind of the long, long and short of it. But it’s basically an opportunity to, you know, deal with topics in a news format that you typically don’t get over the pulpit.

Pastor McGowan: [00:07:11] Right? And we also have these programs archived on the Slbc website where you can go to our archives and you can listen to the programs. And in fact, I think we even have some transcription there. If you want to go find a particular question that was presented during the program, you can do that too. So that’s very handy. So we encourage people to take advantage of that. Well, just.

Pastor Woods: [00:07:33] Just to clarify, that’s something a little different. That’s the KHCB Q&A that we’re doing.

Pastor McGowan: [00:07:38] I beg your pardon? Yes. I got confused there.

Pastor Woods: [00:07:41] And those are archived on the Slbc website. So the program that we do tonight, early next week, will be archived on the Slbc website. And you’re absolutely right, we have those in transcript form, so you might be in a hurry and you can’t listen to the whole call in show. You want to focus on one question and you can look at the transcript and say, aha, they answered the question there at the 32 minute mark that I’ve always wanted to know the answer to. And you could read, read about it and fast forward and just listen to that. Or if you’re a person of great endurance, you can listen to the whole show.

Pastor McGowan: [00:08:19] Yeah, I got so excited I forgot what I was talking about there. So yes, we hope people will take advantage of that. Well, praise the Lord. We have four people waiting. So let’s go to the phones. Thank you for taking the time to call the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:08:34] Yes, good evening. My question is concerning the Cornelius and the dream that Peter saw in Acts Chapter 10, verse 11, when he when he saw heaven opened and a certain vessel descending unto him. And it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners and let down onto the earth. And inside he saw all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things and fowls of the air. So my question is, we understand that this is not talking about food, animals, talking about the Northern Kingdom that became Gentiles and this is the Northern Kingdom. Then it’s not all nations that it’s talking about. Is that true?

Pastor McGowan: [00:09:27] Well, all right. Thank you so much for calling in the program. Let’s see if we can provide you a good answer here.

Pastor Woods: [00:09:33] Well, I don’t think this is dealing with the Northern Kingdom. The Northern Kingdom was the ten Northern tribes. And remember, the kingdom was divided between North and South after the reign of Solomon ended about 931 BC as recorded in First Kings 11, but that the Northern tribes attend Northern tribes with their headquarters in Samaria continued in basically idolatry, and they were scattered by the Assyrians in 722 BC. I don’t believe that that kingdom ever became gentile because James in chapter 1, I believe it’s verse 1 or verse 2, right in there says “to the 12 tribes”. And Paul the Apostle in Acts 26, verse 7 mentions the 12 tribes. And of course, we know from the Book of Revelation that there’s going to be 144,000 Jewish evangelists in the last days. Revelation Chapter 7 indicates that. And, you know, you look at those tribes and the majority of them come from the North. So I don’t I don’t I don’t really believe this view that, you know, the Northern Kingdom, although clearly it was scattered, it didn’t become Gentile. They’ve been preserved and protected by God, and they’re going to be recycled back into the land of Israel in the last days. They were distinct tribes, you know, even in the time of the New Testament, based on the scriptures I read, I mean, Simeon and Anna, if I remember right, was it Anna or Simeon. I can’t remember early Luke was from the tribe of Asher. So that’s proof right there that the North didn’t become gentile.

Pastor Woods: [00:11:19] It remained a distinct tribe, even though they were dispersed by the Assyrians. So, the idea that the North became Gentile, I’m not I’m not on board with that at all. Also Acts Chapter 10, I don’t think is dealing with that topic at all. It’s basically the Lord telling Peter that the age of the law is over with. And we’re in a new age where now Gentiles are going to be getting saved in droves. And when we get to Acts Chapter 15, the Gentiles are going to be joining the church or coming into the church in droves. And he’s sort of preparing Peter, for that this time period that’s new, called the Church Age, when the age of the law is set aside. So that’s why he tells Peter, you know, to arise and eat a concerning certain animals that the Mosaic law forbade eating. And I like Peter’s reaction he says “not so, Lord”. Well, if he’s your Lord, you can’t tell him no, can you? So, you know, Peter had been under or Israel had been under the Mosaic law for 1500 years, and now we’re in the new dispensation, a new age of time called the Church Age. And that’s what that sheet with the animals in it and the dream, that’s what that was designed to communicate. And it really has nothing to do with the scattering of the North and the North allegedly becoming Gentile.

Pastor McGowan: [00:12:51] Amen. All right. Great. Thanks so much for the call. And back to the phones we go. Thank you for calling the program this evening. What is your Bible? Question for Dr. Woods.

Caller: [00:13:00] Dr. Woods, Dr. McGowan. Good to talk to you. I’m calling about John 11 verses 47 through 53. And I think I’m saying this right. Is it Caiaphas was talking about verse 51 or 50-51 where he says, you know, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for all the people. And he didn’t say this on his own initiative, but he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation. So I just was wondering if you could speak to kind of what’s going on there. And then I guess what John 18:14 talks about it, too. So this was curious if you could kind of talk about that in general. Like did he know that it was. He was going to crucify, you know, Jesus was going to be crucified for sinners. You just kind of the Holy Spirit speaking through himself. I’ll hang up and listen.

Pastor McGowan: [00:14:08] Thank you so much for calling the program. That’s a great question. Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:14:11] Yeah. I think the statement that Caiaphas makes there, he’s just trying to protect the nation. You know, he makes. Well, it backs up to verse 49, but a certain one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year said to them, you know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it’s expedient for you that one man should die for the people and that the whole nation should not perish. So he’s basically making a statement there in his own humanity, basically concerning national preservation. And he really didn’t understand the full import of his own words. He actually made a statement there really articulating the bodily atoning death of Jesus Christ. And I think John includes this to demonstrate that God is so sovereign. That he even uses the statements of really Christ hating Christ, rejecting men to articulate his own plan and his own vision for the human race. Here’s a note in my study Bible. It says, Caiaphas could hardly realize the full meaning of his own words. He was simply expressing a thought of a political collaborator with Rome. And yet those words express the central doctrine of the Christian faith, the substitutionary atonement of Christ. That’s what I think is happening there. I think he also asked about John 18.

Pastor McGowan: [00:15:59] Right, 18:14 where says now Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jews that it was expedient for one man to die on behalf of the people.

Pastor Woods: [00:16:07] Yeah. So it’s basically referencing what he said earlier. So it’s kind of like, I guess, dealing with a guy like Judas who betrayed the Lord for 30 pieces of silver through human, his own human greed. And yet when he did that, he was fulfilling the Book of Zechariah chapter 11, which indicates that the Messiah would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver and so, you know, God is so sovereign, He’s even using the free will decisions of his creatures. His creatures that are in rebellion against him to accomplish his own work and his own will.

Pastor McGowan: [00:16:46] Yeah. You know, I don’t think we should lose this to that. Caiaphas was the high priest at the time, and God is taking the highest official in Judaism and having him make a statement that he doesn’t even understand what he’s saying. So that’s pretty, pretty amazing Sovereignty of God.

Pastor Woods: [00:17:04] Pretty good marketing.

Pastor McGowan: [00:17:05] Yeah, Sure is. All right. Thank you so much for the for the call and the question. Back to the phones. Thank you for calling the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:17:16] Yes, sir. Good evening, pastors. I had a question for you. I’ve been studying the End-time prophecies and just in time. I had a question about Revelations 3, Chapter 10. Is this pertaining to us being gathered up removed from here before the seven year Trib? Uh, me personally, I believe in the Pre-trib I don’t think we’re going to have to go through all that. So I’m just kind of kind of wondering what your opinion is. Like I said, I’ve been studying it and got a lot of opinions and just curious what your opinion was.

Pastor McGowan: [00:17:58] Well, thank you so much for calling the program. You called on the right time and you’re going to talk to the right person. So. Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:18:05] Yeah, the Book of Revelation, chapter 3, verse 10, Jesus speaking to the church at Philadelphia – “Because you have kept the word of my perseverance, I will also keep you from the hour which is coming upon the whole earth to test those who dwell on the earth”. So when it talks about this hour that’s coming upon the whole earth to test the earth dwellers. You know, it’s clearly a statement there concerning the coming Tribulation period, which would fit the context beautifully because that tribulation period starts in Chapter 6 and spans all the way through Chapter 19. And so I believe that this is a promise that the Lord is going to keep the church at Philadelphia out of that time period. The verb keep “Tereo”. And when you put it together with the preposition keep you from, you can do kind of a study on that verb and that preposition or similar verbs in that preposition used elsewhere in the Bible. And typically it means to “be kept out of completely or totally”. And I believe that that interpretation is vindicated in the rest of the Book of Revelation. Because you know what Brother Jim? As you study Revelation 6 through 19, you don’t see a single reference to the church on the earth. Amen at all. Amen The word isn’t there. The concept of the church isn’t there. And so you get the impression that Jesus kept his, kept his promise. It’s interesting that the noun Ecclesia Church is used 19 times in Revelation chapters 1 through 3, and it’s not used a single time in the futuristic section of the book.

Pastor Woods: [00:20:02] Revelation Chapter 4 through 22, until at the very end of the book, when the Lord, the Lord, through the angel says, preach these things in the churches. Revelation 22, verse 16. Other than that, there’s no reference to the church anywhere in the rest of the book. If it’s alluded to, it’s in heaven. You know, the 24 elders, which I think are the church, are in heaven. The seven lampstands which represent the church are in heaven, but never on the earth. And in fact, the word church is not even used in that section. In fact, God’s hand is on the nation of Israel again. During that time period, the two Jewish witnesses, the 144,000 Jewish evangelists, and you’ll also see Satan attacking in Revelation 12, not the church. He attacks the church today because we wrestle not against flesh and blood – Ephesians 6, but he’s attacking the woman clothed with the sun and the moon and the 12 stars. Revelation 12, which is a reference to Israel according to Joseph’s dream. Genesis 37, 9 and 10. So Jesus kept his word to Philadelphia. And I believe that this is a promise not just to Philadelphia, but to all the churches. And the reason I say that is when you drop down to Revelation 3:13, it says He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches, plural. So what Christ promised to Philadelphia is applicable to all churches.

Pastor McGowan: [00:21:34] Amen and brother. If you’re interested in studying end time events, I would encourage you to check out Doctor Wood’s Revelation series on our website at SLBC.org. Go to the sermon archives and you can search there and find everything you could ever want to know about the Book of Revelation. So thank you so much for calling the program. And back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:22:02] Yes. Yes. Can you hear me?

Pastor McGowan: [00:22:05] Yes, sir.

Caller: [00:22:07] Looking at Luke, got three scriptures I want to cite and then ask a question in Luke 1:6. It says that both Zacharias and Elizabeth were righteous before God walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord and then flip on over to John 1:17, where it says, for the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. And then flipping over to Galatians 5:14, it says, Christ had become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law. You have fallen from grace. So my question is, if I have been a Christian for a while and I start feeling like I’m a very good Christian and that maybe I can do this on my own and that maybe Elizabeth and Zachariah have inspired me to become righteous before the Lord by keeping all the commandments like they did. Is it okay to mix a little bit of Moses with the Messiah? That’s my question.

Pastor McGowan: [00:23:35] All right. Great question. Thank you. Just stand by and we’ll give you a Bible answer for you.

Pastor Woods: [00:23:41] Well, the answer is no, because the principle of the law and the principle of grace are polar opposites. And it’s to mix them together is like trying to mix oil and water. When it talks about those folks in early Luke being righteous, I don’t think they were righteous because they were law keepers. I think they were righteous on the basis of Genesis 15, verse 6, which says Abraham believed God, or Abraham at that time believed God, and it was credited to him unto righteousness. And so they were you know, Abraham was looking forward to a coming Messiah, right? That’s what made him righteous. He was under the transferred righteousness of the death of Jesus, even though the debt hadn’t been paid yet. That’s why Paul makes a big deal in Galatians 3, verse 16, about the seed of Abraham. Not just the generic seed, but an individual seed. Abraham was looking forward to an individual seed that he was aware of, probably from Messianic prophecy, going all the way back to Genesis 3, verse 15. And so that’s why those early prophets in Luke are righteous, not because of law keeping. I mean, Paul, I think is pretty clear in Romans 3, Galatians 3 countless other places that you know by the works of the law, no man is righteous before God.

Pastor Woods: [00:25:06] I mean the law’s purpose really when you get right down to it, is to reveal our own inability to measure up to God’s righteous standards. And so what we really need is a good dose of Philippians 3, verse 9, where Paul talks about the transferred righteousness of Christ. I need his righteousness transferred to me, positionally at the point of faith. And that’s what gives me right standing. I mean, the only difference between me and Abraham is Abraham was looking forward to a Messiah whose name he didn’t know and the debt hadn’t been paid yet. That’s why some English translations say it was credited to him for righteousness. And the difference between him and me is I’m not looking forward, I’m looking backward. The debt has been paid, and I do know the name of the Savior. But the principle of faith in whether you’re talking about New Testament folks or Old Testament folks that are right with God is still the same. Salvation by faith alone in Christ alone. And now you have a series called Law and Grace, right? And they can find that at the Sugar Land Bible Church website. So this is kind of a passion of yours. What would you add to this?

Pastor McGowan: [00:26:19] Well, I think you’ve I think you’ve pretty much said it all there. But, you know, the apostle Paul also tells us that the law was a ministry of condemnation. And I don’t know about you, but I think I will take the free grace of Jesus over condemnation any day. So I hope that’s helpful. All right, back to the phones we go. Thanks for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening? Hello? Caller?

Caller: [00:26:48] Yes, I’m here. Thank you very much for answering. I have a question that I’m somewhat puzzled about. I am a Christian. Um, the Scriptures is Romans 11, verse 26, where Jesus speaks. Is this a particular time frame that He’s speaking of? That all the Jews will be saved or whatever. But could you explain that to me? Because when I read the Scripture, I cried out of joy. But I want to make sure. I cry when I talk about the Lord.

Pastor McGowan: [00:27:19] I do, too.

Pastor McGowan: [00:27:22] All right. Thank you for calling the program.

Pastor Woods: [00:27:24] Well, it’s a great these are a great couple of verses. Romans 11:25 and 26. Paul writes “for I do not want you to brethren, to be uninformed of the mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation that a partial” (important word there – partial) “hardening has happened to Israel until” (important word there, too) “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and thus all Israel will be saved just as it is written, the deliverer will come from Zion. He will remove ungodliness from Jacob”, etcetera. So Paul in Romans 9, ten and 11 is dealing with the nation of Israel. Because if God is not going to be faithful to His promises to Israel, how in the world can you trust him to keep his promises in Romans 8? And Romans 12, verse 1, he’s going to exhort us to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice. How can you do that if you think God is untrustworthy because you think he’s broken his word to Israel and if he’s broken his word to Israel, he’s going to break his word to me? So that’s why Romans 9, 10 and 11 are in your Bible. Romans 9 – Israel in the past – elected; Romans 10 – Israel in the present – rejected; Romans 11 though Israel in the future – accepted. And what these verses are talking about in Romans 11 is God is currently at work in the church that’s predominantly Gentile.

Pastor Woods: [00:28:53] He’s actually using the church to provoke Israel to envy. But the day is going to come where the bride will be full or complete. And we believe at that point the church will be raptured to heaven. And God will put his hand right back on Israel and complete his unfinished business with them in the seven year tribulation period. And then the thousand year kingdom that follows. In fact, the conversion of Israel is what’s going to bring the thousand year messianic millennial kingdom to the earth. And so that’s the mystery. The mystery isn’t the conversion of Israel. Rather, the mystery is the fact that God now has Israel in time out, if I can put it that way, in postponement, not cancellation while he’s at work with the church. But the day in history will come where his work with the church will be finished and the church will be translated and God will turn his hand back on Israel and all Israel will be saved. Now, I should be clear, when you throw in Zechariah 13, 8 and 9, the conversion of Israel is not going to be easy because 2/3 of them are going to be broken off in unbelief, leaving a 1/3. But by the time you get to the tribulation period and its conclusion, every living Jew on planet Earth will be regenerated. And that’s what that verse is speaking of.

Pastor McGowan: [00:30:24] Praise the Lord. Well, ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, we’re at the top of the hour, so we’re going to pause here for a few minutes, our few moments, rather. And when we come back, we’ll have our prayer for the nation. So stand by. All right. Welcome back to KHCB’s Question and Answer program. It’s time for our prayer for the Nation. And if you’re in a safe place and can do so, we would ask you to just pause with us as we go to the Lord in prayer. Shall we do that right now? Thank you, Abba Father, that the Bible is not silent regarding how we are. We as believers in Christ, rather, are to respond to our government and our leaders. For you tell us in Ist Timothy 2, 1 and 2 to offer up petitions, prayers, intercession and Thanksgiving for kings and all those in authority that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. You tell us also in Romans 13:1 that there is no authority except that which God has established. And finally, the Lord Jesus himself admonished his disciples in Matthew 22:21, to give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to give God what is God’s. So we come to you in this moment to pray for our government, our leaders, and our nation. We acknowledge the pressures that come with leadership, so we pray for wisdom and discernment for our current leaders and for those who follow them into service. Help us also, as we pray, to remember that our elected leaders are not our enemies and that our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Pastor McGowan: [00:32:26] As we’re told in Ephesians 6:12, we pray specifically for salvation for our unbelieving leaders, but also for conviction upon any of our leaders who are tempted by satanic powers of corruption. We pray also for our believing leaders that they might be forthright regarding their commitment to Christ and that their lives, attitudes and testimony might properly reflect their faith. But regardless of their spiritual condition, we pray for them all, because we recognize the seriousness of their duties, and we thank you for their willingness to lead. Abba Father, please also protect all of our first responders, law enforcement officers, firemen and women, EMTs, doctors and nurses, the men and women faithfully serving in our military and all those who put their lives in jeopardy to save and rescue others. And please bring them home safely to their families. Help us, your children, to be salt and light to those within our sphere of influence who are without hope. And use us to minister your love and grace so that they might place their faith and confidence in Jesus, their only hope for the safe keeping of their souls. And finally, Father, thank you for loving your children so very much that you do not leave us as we are. But you work within us moment by moment to conform us into the image of your dear son. Help us to continue to develop Christ’s likeness in our attitudes and actions. And remind your children that this earth is not our home. And this we pray in the name of Jesus. Maranatha and Amen. All right. Thank you for pausing with us. And now we’ll go back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:34:53] Yes. Good evening. Good evening. Okay. I don’t know if I will be able to answer. I mean, ask a two part question, if that’s okay. The first question will be out of Proverbs 24, verses 4 and 5, where it says, Answer a fool, not answer another fool according to his folly so that you don’t be like him. And the next part say, answer a fool according to his folly and kind of completes it all. That’s the first question. The second question will be out of Ist Samuel 16. It was the story of where Jesse where Samuel was asked to go and pick up and anoint one of the sons of Jesse. But when he was going, he was asked to say that he was actually going there for a sacrifice, when in reality he was going to pick up a king. Then a similar situation arose in Joshua. I’m not I couldn’t reference that verse completely, but it was a case of a Rahab when the two spies came and she hid them in the roof of a house. But when the king asked, he said no, they had gone so and with that she was able to maneuver and have them saved. So my question with that is, will there be any circumstance where maybe there’s a threat to life or maybe we have some wicked king or terrorists who try to kind of gain access to one’s maybe location and all that stuff? Would it be okay to kind of disguise your information so as not to be to be discreet and not to open up completely with the information as far as telling the whole truth is. So that’s just the basis of that question.

Pastor McGowan: [00:36:38] All right. That’s a very interesting question. Thank you so much for calling the program. Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:36:43] Well, in the case of Proverbs 24, I think it is, you know, one verse says, you know, don’t you know, don’t answer a fool according to his folly. And the other verse says answer a fool according to his folly. I think it’s one of those kinds of things where it depends on the circumstances. Some circumstances require answering a person according to their foolishness. Other circumstances, it wouldn’t be appropriate. So I think that’s really how to explain the alleged contradiction there in Proverbs 24 now concerning Rahab and her lying. And she did lie. You know, that’s an example of what we would call the Bible described what happened. It’s descriptive literature. It’s not necessarily prescribe saying what we should do. Because after all, one of the Ten Commandments is, you know, thou shalt not bear false witness. Now, having said that, let me give you this scenario. If I was living in Nazi Germany and I knew what Hitler was doing to the Jews, I would hope that I would be among those like Oskar Schindler and, you know, others that would hide a Jew and basically deceive the Nazi regime. Why? Because it’s a question of moral turpitude. Which is worse? Telling a lie or allowing a Jew to go to the oven. And so by my way of thinking, I would say, you know, allowing a Jew to go to the oven is far worse and so forth. Therefore, a lie in that narrow circumstance is justifiable. So, you know, that’s how I look at it. I’m not sure I would use Rahab as my example because I think there it’s describing, not necessarily prescribing, but you know, there are those examples excuse me, in the Bible where people told the government, “No”. I’m thinking of Daniel 3, Daniel 6, I’m thinking of the midwives in the book of Exodus, Chapter 1. We could probably give a lot of other different examples of that where it’s permissible to accomplish a greater good, to commit civil disobedience against one’s own government.

Pastor McGowan: [00:39:06] Yeah, I’m not sure I was trying to find it, but I believe, if I’m not mistaken, the incident in Ist Samuel was where God told Samuel to go anoint David. That was the context. And of course Saul was the reigning king. And for Samuel to do this was very, very dangerous. So I think it’s kind of a similar situation to kind of maybe what you were talking about with the Nazis where he had to protect, you know, he had to protect himself as the prophet, but he also had to protect Jesse’s family.

Pastor Woods: [00:39:38] And of course, we know from the rest of the book of Ist Samuel that Saul, you know, tried to kill David many times. Many times. So, you know, generally we should be truth tellers, but there are circumstances where us not being truth tellers may accomplish a higher value as far as God is concerned. And I think in those circumstances, you know, we’re permitted to deceive, maybe deceive our own government should it become unlawful and wicked like it did in Nazi Germany.

Pastor McGowan: [00:40:13] Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you again for calling the program. We appreciate that question. And back to the phones we want to go now. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:40:24] Yes. Um, in according to what you just been saying, that that we that the church leaves. Um. Okay. So I’m considering myself one of the church. So, um, the, the Saints in in 14:12 of Revelation. Who are the Saints in Revelation 14?

Pastor McGowan: [00:40:53] What verses?

Caller: [00:40:54] 14:12.

Pastor McGowan: [00:40:55] 14:12. Okay, let’s we’ll run over there real quickly and see what the context is. Thank you for calling the program. We’re going to give you a good Bible answer here.

Pastor Woods: [00:41:04] All right. The Book of Revelation, chapter 14 and verse 12 says, and the make sure I got the right.

Pastor McGowan: [00:41:17] I think I have it right here. If you’d like me to…

Pastor Woods: [00:41:18] Please go ahead.

Pastor McGowan: [00:41:19] All right. Revelation 14:12. Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Pastor Woods: [00:41:28] So, I think her question is, if we believe in the Pre-trib rapture, who are these people here? It’s kind of interesting that he says, here is the perseverance of the saints. He doesn’t use the word church, although John is pretty good at using the word church. When you go back to Revelation 13, it says there in verse 9, if anyone has an ear, let him hear. Now, that’s very interesting because seven times in Revelation 2 and 3, it uses that same expression. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. And then it says what the spirit says to the churches. So why would it be missing here? Because the church is absent. So who are these? Who are these saints of Revelation 14, verse 12? Well, these are people that are converted right in the tribulation period, presumably by the 144,000 Jewish evangelists. Revelation 7 – After the church, the body of Christ has already been raptured to heaven. So the name “Saints” sometimes describes the church in certain contexts. But I could go back into the Psalms. Boy, I want to say Psalm. I want to say Psalm 50, Psalm and Psalm 149. You might want to double-check those, but God’s people in Old Testament times were called saints. And that was before the church ever came into existence, because Jesus said in Matthew 16, verse 18, I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. So the church didn’t exist when he said that because the verb is in the future tense, the church didn’t exist in the Old Testament. And yet God’s people are called saints in the Old Testament. So the word saints in and of itself doesn’t uniquely identify the church. So I don’t think this is the church. I think these are people that are converted by the 144,000 Jews and perhaps the two witnesses of Revelation 11 after the church has already been snatched or raptured or taken to heaven.

Pastor McGowan: [00:43:37] Yes. So I guess really the issue is we want to make sure that we’re understanding the context where we’re finding the word “saint” or “saints” and then understand that we have Old Testament saints, we have tribulation saints, and we have church age saints, correct?

Pastor Woods: [00:43:53] That’s exactly.

Pastor McGowan: [00:43:54] Right. All right. Well, thank you so much. We hope that was helpful to you. Back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:44:02] Yeah, Can you hear me okay?

Pastor McGowan: [00:44:04] Yes, go ahead.

Caller: [00:44:05] Scripture is coming from Ist Corinthians 2:13. And this particular translation reads, “which also we speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the spirit, communicating spiritual things, by spiritual things. And then at the front of that book, Ist Corinthians verse 2, it’s addressed to the Church of God. My question, discussion question, is this: I keep on hearing people talk about we’re going to church, we’re going to sit in church. We’re going to leave the church. Meaning leave the church, meaning not excommunication. We’re going to the church service is over. So we going to eat somewhere? Something like that? No, we are going to do this. Are you going to church today? Oh, I went to church last week. Those. My question is, are not those very corruptive, carnal ways of communicating something that is totally spiritual, which the church is? And is there a better way for us to talk about the church, besides which is a spiritual matter? It’s not a physical material matter. It’s a spiritual matter. The church is a spiritual matter. Is there a better way for us to talk about the church rather than bringing it down to some earthly building that we go to and go to and from? That’s my question.

Pastor McGowan: [00:45:39] All right. Thank you once again for calling the program. Pastor?

Pastor Woods: [00:45:42] Well, I think a better way to express it is there’s a difference between the local church and the universal church. You’ll find most of the New Testament written to local churches, to the church at Rome Church, at Corinth Church at Ephesus. That’s a particular group of people that met in a particular geographical area. That’s to be distinguished from the universal church, which you see in Revelation excuse me, Ephesians 2 and 3, which is basically all the believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, living and dead over the over the past 2,000 years. And so there’s you know, if you go to my Ecclesiology series on the Sugar Land Bible Church website, one of the earlier lessons we did there is the distinctions between the universal church and the local church. And I think most systematic theologies will cover that in the Ecclesiology section. So, you know, the church consists of locally anybody that’s there on Sunday morning. Some may be believers and there could be unbelievers in your midst, but you can’t have that in the universal church. Either you’re a saint or you’re an ain’t. As J. Vernon J. Vernon McGee says. You got to be born of the spirit to be in the universal church. And there’s lots of distinctions like that. Yeah. And so a good systematic theology showing you those differences will kind of, I think, clear up some of the sloppy language that we hear today.

Pastor McGowan: [00:47:16] Amen All right. Thank you again for calling the program. Back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:47:23] Hi. So, we’re taught, you know that we should not judge unless we are judged. So my question is, when it comes to homosexuality, how do we, how do I justify that their behavior is wrong, is a sin without opening myself up to be judged because we all are sinners. And it’s like in society, some Christians act as if they want to exclude them and we can’t go around excluding them without. But then how are we showing the love of Christ in us? But then it’s like if we go along with, you know, engage with them, take part in their functions or whatever, especially if they’re in our families, it’s like you’re, you’re accepting their behavior. So, I just have trouble with how do I defend that their behavior is wrong without opening myself up for judgment? Because there are some very clever comebacks, you know, replies for justifying their behavior. So, I would like just some suggestions and some advice on how best to handle that as a Christian, when others have questions for us Christians as to how to deal with that.

Pastor McGowan: [00:48:33] Well, that’s a very intelligent question and it shows your sensitivity. And so I want you to know how much I appreciate that. So let’s see if we can give you some good answers from the Bible.

Pastor Woods: [00:48:43] Well, first of all, the don’t judge. Let’s let’s talk about that first. You know, when the Lord said don’t judge, what he was saying is don’t judge hypocritically. You know, don’t try to take the speck out of your brother’s eye when you’ve got the big plank in your own eye. In other words, if I’m Al Capone, you know, I shouldn’t run around, you know, telling people and judging people for not following the law when I’m one of the biggest law breakers ever. So that’s basically what Jesus is talking about there. He’s not saying never judge. He’s saying don’t do it hypocritically. And also, we’re not to judge things that we have no knowledge of. So, I can’t sit in judgment on someone’s motives because I can’t see them or someone’s heart. That’s the that’s the purview only of God. So other than those two things, we are called to judge as Christians. In fact, Ist Corinthians 2, verse 15, says, the man who is spiritual judges all things. And this is why the Bereans Acts, chapter 17, verse 11, were praised because they were not like the Thessalonians. They received the word with gladness, but they from Paul of all people. But they searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Ist Thessalonians 5 around verses 19 through 21 says “Test All things hold fast to that which is good”. And Jesus, in Revelation 2, verse 2 commends the church at Ephesus because they had put certain men to the test who claimed to be apostles and found them to be liars. And so Jesus there says thumbs up. So that’s how I look at homosexuality. I’m looking at a lifestyle and I’m looking at the Bible and I’m seeing inconsistencies.

Pastor Woods: [00:50:36] So, as a Christian, you have every right to have a conviction that that lifestyle is wrong. So once you come to that conviction because it contradicts countless scriptures, I don’t know if I have time to name them all – Matthew 19:3 through 6, Romans 1:26 and 27. Leviticus 18, I think around verse 21, Leviticus 20, verse 13, it contradicts God’s blueprint for sexuality between Adam and Eve, Genesis 1 and 2. I mean, very clearly the lifestyle is wrong. It’s sinful, it goes against God’s design. So once and you have a right as a Christian to have that conviction, that’s what you’re supposed to do as a Christian. So once you develop that conviction, how do you do this in a loving way? You have to come at it from the perspective of homosexual souls are souls for whom Christ died, right? I mean, they’re the mission field. Okay. And you want to as the old saying goes, “love the sinner but hate the sin”. And you want to sort of come at it from a perspective that if you continue on in this lifestyle, it is to your detriment because you are living outside the design of God. And so you want to be firm in the truth, but you also can do it in a loving way where you’re actually trying to help them and save them. Now, they may not understand you that way right off the bat. They’re going to use phrases like “you’re a hater” and “you’re a bigot”, but you’re really not a hater and a bigot. If you are a hater and a bigot, you would let them continue on and self-destruct in that lifestyle. Yes. So those are some insights I would have. What would you say?

Pastor McGowan: [00:52:24] I was just looking at Ist Corinthians chapter 6 and looking at verse 9 and at sort of the second part of that verse, Paul is saying to the Corinthians – by the way, the Corinthian church was in Corinth, which was known to be one of the most vile, debauched cities on the planet at the time. And he says, “do not be deceived. Neither fornicators nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God”. But I’m so glad he didn’t stop there, because notice what he says in verse 11. “Such were some of you, but you were washed”. Who was washed? Well, the whole group of people we just mentioned, you were sanctified. You were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God. So I think Paul had firsthand experience with dealing with exactly what you were calling about. And he tells you kind of how to handle that. Love them to Jesus if you can.

Pastor Woods: [00:53:33] Yeah. And such an important verse because we’re living in a culture where they’re trying to present homosexuality as some kind of immutable characteristic, like being Hispanic or Asian or black or white. And they’re doing that because they feel they can get certain rights under the legal system by making that argument. But that verse clearly tells you that a homosexual can change their lifestyle under God’s power, just like everybody else in that list. A thief or a murderer. Yes, they can all change under the power of the Holy Spirit. And so don’t buy the world’s lie that, you know, this is just like a civil rights minority status. That’s not the biblical position at all.

Pastor McGowan: [00:54:15] Amen. Amen. Well, thank you again for calling the program, and we’ll be praying for you as you deal with those issues with family or friends. And we appreciate that. Thank you. All right. Let’s go back to the phones. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:54:30] Yes, sir. Dr. Woods.

Pastor McGowan: [00:54:31] Go for it.

Caller: [00:54:34] About if and when the temple is rebuilt in the millennium, will the sacrificial system be reinstituted? If so, who will be offering sacrifices and why?

Pastor McGowan: [00:54:50] All right. That’s a great question. Thank you for calling the program. Pastor, will there be sacrifices in the millennial kingdom?

Pastor Woods: [00:54:58] Well, there will be because Ezekiel 40 through 48, I want to say around chapter 43 and other parts of that section say there will be sacrifices in the temple. And I’m not in a position to, you know, erase that part of the Bible. I mean, it says, says what? It says in great detail. In great detail. You know, Paul the apostle in Acts 21, I think it is, I want to say around verse 26 issued an animal sacrifice. Did you know that the guy who talked more about the finished death of Jesus Christ than any other person himself, so as not to be offensive to the Jews issued an animal sacrifice. I think you’ll find that in Acts 21, verse 26. So that verse right there shows me you can have animal sacrifices without it subtracting from the finished work of Jesus. So, why animal sacrifices? I think part of it is in the millennium, death is a foregone reality. In fact, if a person dies at the age of 100, everybody is going to sit around Isaiah 65 and say, What a tragedy such a young man died. And so you’re living in a world where the curse is dramatically rolled back and people that are resurrected won’t die at all.

Pastor Woods: [00:56:25] And you’d almost forget what death is like, right? And if you forget what death is like, you forget. You can forget the death of the savior who made the millennial kingdom possible. And so we will never forget that sacrifice. I think the sacrifices will function in the temple. You’ll walk in there and you’ll see the blood being, you know, the animals being slaughtered. And it’s memorial. You’re looking backward and you’re saying, well, Lord, thank you for your death and making this millennial world, you know, a possibility. So I kind of look at these animal sacrifices the same way we look at communion today. When we take communion today, we’re not re-sacrificing Jesus. Jesus said, “do this in remembrance of me”. The elements remind us of his sacrifice, body and his shed blood. There’s another argument, and you’ll find this in some articles in Bibliotheca Sacra. That’s Dallas Seminary’s Academic Journal by Jerry Hullinger, and he argues that animal sacrifices are going to be needed for ceremonial cleansing for the priests. And he makes that argument from Hebrews chapter 9 and verse 13. So there’s a couple of reasons, you know, why the animal sacrifices will exist in the millennial kingdom.

Pastor McGowan: [00:57:53] All right. Thank you for calling the program. We hope that that was helpful to you. Let’s go back to the phones. We have a little bit of time left here. So thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:58:04] Yes, I want to give you a scripture. It’s in the book of Psalms 148, verse 14, These are the Saints and this is only the Saints. It says he also exalt the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints, even the children of Israel, a people near unto him. The Bible only says that the children of Israel are the saints nowhere else in the Bible. It says any other nation are considered saints.

Speaker16: [00:58:38] Is that true?

Pastor McGowan: [00:58:40] Well, all right. Thank you for calling the program. Let’s see if we can provide you a good answer.

Pastor Woods: [00:58:44] Well, I think, you know, in the Old Testament, that’s probably true, although there are people like, oh, I don’t know, Rahab and Ruth that are Gentiles. They would be called Proselytes. But generally, I think you’re right. You know, it’s the Israelis in the Old Testament, God’s people that are called saints. But when you get to the New Testament and you have the church and you have massive Gentile inclusion, you know, into the church, the church is called saints also. So, you know, I think you said it earlier, you named different kinds of saints, didn’t you? Why don’t you read Old Testament.

Pastor McGowan: [00:59:24] Tribulation Saints and Church age Saints.

Pastor Woods: [00:59:25] Yeah. And you have to distinguish which is which based on the context you’re working in.

Pastor McGowan: [00:59:30] Exactly. Correct. All right. Thanks for calling the program. Back to the phones we go. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods?

Caller: [00:59:38] Just. Hi, I have a quick question. Good evening. When King David became king, Israel was separate from the House of Judah. Why was that?

Pastor McGowan: [00:59:53] All right. So when David became king. You’re saying Judah was separated from…

Speaker17: [01:00:01] He was king of Judah and then became king of Israel? From what I understand.

Pastor McGowan: [01:00:07] Okay, gotcha.

Pastor Woods: [01:00:09] Well, you know that that trajectory is probably followed because the Kings had to come from Judah. David was Israel’s. You know, Saul was from the wrong tribe. He was a Benjamite. And David was from the right tribe. He was from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49, verse 10. And so that, you know, he became leader of Judah and then later of the whole nation. And so probably that trajectory was followed to show you that David came. You know, David had attained his regal authority over the whole nation because he came from the right tribe.

Pastor McGowan: [01:00:45] Yeah. And of course, when David was anointed king, you have to remember, too, that the Israelite, the, the tribes other than Judah, for the most part, were following Saul and so you had that problem there where Saul was trying to get rid of David. And then finally David is made king. The tribe of Judah, you know, recognizes him as being the anointed king. And so then they needed to, in order to bring a united kingdom together, they needed to go to the remaining tribes and encourage them to also accept David because he was anointed by Samuel. So praise the Lord.

Pastor Woods: [01:01:24] I think we want to squeeze one more in.

Pastor McGowan: [01:01:25] Well, I think we’re going to get one more in, so let’s do that. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [01:01:32] Hey, if Houston, Texas were to become as evil as the city of Corinth, should the church close up shop and go somewhere else?

Pastor McGowan: [01:01:39] All right. We’ll end on that one.

Pastor Woods: [01:01:42] The church should never close up shop and go somewhere else because the church is the salt and light of the earth. You know, if the salt and light leaves, you know, what hope is there for planet Earth? And I don’t think there’s evidence that Paul told the Corinthians, you know, look at this wicked city you’re living in. Get the get out of here. You know, go to a red state, you know.  For Christ – because we’ve got some good brothers. We happen to live in a red state, but we got some good Christian brothers that are fighting the good fight and the bluest of the blue states. And we say hang in there because that’s the function of light. You put it where it’s dark.

Pastor McGowan: [01:02:21] Amen. Amen. Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for calling the program this evening. God bless you. And stay tuned next time for a KCBS question and Answer program. God bless.

Announcer: [01:02:44] And once again, we’d like to thank you for joining us tonight on our Question and Answers program. Tonight’s guests have been Dr. Andy Woods and Dr. Jim McGowan. The church website for Sugar Land Bible Church is SLBC.org. You can also reach them at Pastors Point of View. You can find that on YouTube and Rumble. Thank you so much for listening and tuning in.