KHCB – 06-15-2023 – Full Program Transcript

 

Announcer: [00:00:00] Good evening. Welcome to our weekly Question and Answers program. A program where you can call us with your questions about the Bible, a scripture or the Christian way of life. And our guests will answer that question for you live on the air. Tonight’s guests are Dr. Andy Woods, Senior Pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church. He’s also president of the Chafer Theological Seminary. He has authored and contributed to many Christian books and theological journals. He also speaks on a variety of topics at Christian conferences and churches. Also tonight we have Dr. Jim McGowan, Associate pastor of Sugar Land Bible Church. The church website can be found at SLBC.org.

You can also reach them at the “Pastors Point of View” found on YouTube (Pastor’s Point of View) and Rumble (Pastor’s Point of View) and their website Andy Woods Ministries.org.

If you’re calling from inside the Houston listening area, you can dial (832) 922-4444. That’s (832) 922-4444. If you’re calling from around the KHCB network outside the Houston area, you can dial (877) 999-5422. That’s (877) 999-5422. Or if you’d rather email your question to us, you can send that to questions. That’s plural Questions@KHCB.org and it will appear on our computer screen here in the studio and we’ll forward it to our guests. We ask that you not mention any denominations or personal names, because our aim tonight is to answer questions relating to the Bible. And now to get us started, here are our Pastors Dr. Andy Woods and Dr. Jim McGowan.

Pastor Jim: [00:02:37] Well, welcome again listening friends. We’re so very glad to be back in the KHCB studio again this evening to take your Bible questions. We’re also glad to know that we can rely on the Bible, God’s holy Word for answers, because it alone contains everything we need for life and godliness. Man’s wisdom is inadequate, but God’s holy Word, as revealed in the Bible, the only inspired, authoritative revelation of everlasting truth is God’s love letter to us and our one and only life manual given to us to guide us into full spiritual maturity. God is going to speak to all of us through His Word this evening. So let’s expect to hear from him and praise and thank him for the answers he’s going to provide. We do ask that you remember to please keep your on-air time to one question and also to remember to turn your volume down before you come on the air.  And then once you’ve shared your question, be so kind as to go ahead and hang up. And that frees up a line for the next caller who may be waiting. So we appreciate your cooperation on that. We truly appreciate it. And let’s start the program this evening with an email question that came in, Pastor. This individual writes in and says, “I don’t get to listen live to Pastor Andy Woods and Pastor Jim, but listen online afterwards. They have two questions. They say, Please explain the meaning of the parable of the wine skins in Luke 5:36 through 39. And then also they want to make a comparison with Matthew 7:15 through 23 and Luke 6:43 through 49.”  So, Pastor, how would we handle those questions?

Pastor Andy: [00:04:47] All right. Well, let’s start with the wine skins and let’s go over, if we could, to the New Testament. And let’s see, we’re looking at Luke Acts. Let’s see, 5:36 through 39. Of course, this is the parable that Jesus told about the you know, you can’t pour the wine, new wine into the old wine skins because the old wine skins, you know, of course are going to break. And I think basically the old wine skins is basically the law of Moses. Wine skins is used as a container for liquid if filled with new wine. Old skins lost their elasticity and burst when it fermented the wine, that is. The point is that the new teachings of grace of taught by Jesus Christ cannot be contained in the old forms of the law. And I think that’s his, you know, his central point there in Luke chapter 5, verses 36 through 39, where he says, you can’t pour the new wine into the old wine skin. This is why Jesus was always in out of sorts with the religious leaders. You know, he was offering something new. He, of course, is a high priest, not after the order of Aaron, but after the order of Melchizedek. So he was bringing in something completely and totally new, and it simply could not be contained with what the Pharisees were clinging to, which was the Mosaic law.  Let’s go over to the second part of the question. This is in Matthew chapter 7, verses 20 through 23, and I’m glad we’re being asked about this because these verses are commonly, I think, misconstrued, misunderstood, ripped out of context.

Pastor Andy: [00:06:39] It says in Matthew 7:20 through 23, it says in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says, “So you will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but He who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name, cast out demons and in your name, perform many miracles and I will declare to them, I never knew you depart from me you who practice lawlessness.” Now, unfortunately, there’s a system out there that’s very Calvinistic and they teach the two faiths. There’s the faith that saves and the faith that doesn’t save. The faith that saves, they say, is always accompanied by, you know, contrition, sorrow, repentance that tears that kind of thing. And it’s actually a gift from God. They believe faith is a gift. And then they think there’s another kind of faith that’s spurious. It’s not real. Which I think is a horrible doctrine to teach people because if you teach people this, they’re going to spend their whole life wondering, do they have the right kind of faith? The faith that saves or the faith that doesn’t save.

Pastor Andy: [00:07:58] And so what a lot of people in the reform camp will say is these are people that just had the wrong kind of faith. They didn’t have the gift of faith. And so they’re going to get they’re up there to the final judgment and they’re going to hear those terrible words, you know, depart from me. I never knew you, you workers of iniquity. So these verses are used many times just to terrorize Christians. But the truth of the matter is, there’s only one kind of faith, which is trust. You know, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness. If a person is trusting in Christ for their salvation, then they’re saved. So verses 22 through 23 do not talk about people that have trusted in Christ. If you just back up to verse 15, you see exactly who he’s talking about because verse 15 comes before verse 20. Amen to that. Verse 15 says, Beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. So what Jesus is dealing with in Matthew seven 22 through 23 is not people that have spurious faith. What he’s dealing with are the Pharisees. And the Pharisees thought they were saved by self-righteousness. And on the Day of Judgment they’re going to plead their self-righteousness before God. And because they’re not related to Jesus by way of faith, but are trusting in their own good works.

Pastor Andy: [00:09:25] As Isaiah 64, verse 6 says, they’re going to discover that their works are filthy rags and they’re they’re going to be escorted, ushered immediately into hell. So that’s it’s this is dealing with self-righteous people that are unsaved like the Pharisees that are going to plead their good works on the day of judgment is what he’s talking about, not talking about people that have spurious faith. Okay. Now, if you if folks will just go over to Matthew 12, which is the exact same book and they’ll look at verse 33 through 37, tell me if this doesn’t ring a bell, okay. He says in Matthew 12:33 either make the tree good and its fruit or make the tree bad. And its fruit for the tree is known by its fruit. So he’s using the exact same analogy that he uses in Matthew 7. So who’s he talking to? In Matthew 12. Well, if you pack up to Matthew 12:24 it says doesn’t verse 24 come before verse 33. Matthew 12. Okay, so verse 24 says, “But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This man casts out demons by Beelzebub”. So when Jesus talks about good fruit, bad fruit, he’s talking about distinguishing true doctrine from the doctrine of the Pharisees.

Pastor Andy: [00:10:50] And he goes on, beginning in verse 34, You brood of vipers. How can you being evil speak? What is good for the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. And he’s basically talking about the false words or doctrine of the Pharisees, which will not help people on the Day of Judgment because it was a self-righteous concept. Right? So when that same imagery of Matthew 12 is used in Matthew chapter 7, it’s very clear that he’s dealing there with the Pharisees not it’s not dealing with people within Christianity that may have the wrong kind of faith. Now, the question also, this gentleman that sent this question in and we’ve had this question actually in our file for a while, that’s why I have a lot of different notes on it. We just haven’t had a chance to get to it. But he also asked about Luke. 6:39. Luke 6:39 says “And he spoke that Jesus spoke a parable to them. A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into the pit?” So the question there is, well, who’s the blind guide? And once again, this is a verse that is speaking of the Pharisees. The Pharisees are the blind guide. How do we know that? Because we have a parallel passage in Matthew’s Gospel. Matthew Chapter 5 – excuse me, Matthew Chapter 15, verses 12 through 14.

Pastor Andy: [00:12:30] It says The disciples came to him and said, Do you know that the Pharisees? That’s who he’s speaking of were offended when you heard this statement, when they heard this statement. But he answered, That’s Jesus answered and said, every plant which my Heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, will they both not fall into the pit? So it’s very clear that the blind guide is the Pharisee in Matthew 15. And so when we use that to help us understand the parallel passage in Luke 6:39 the blind guides are the Pharisees, so I hope that helps. The wine skins is the law which cannot hold the teachings of Jesus. Those that are going to hear those frightful words depart from me, I never knew you. Is not, you know, Sister so-and-so sitting in church that miss choir practice because she’s not persevering in the faith. That’s not what it’s dealing with. It’s dealing with unsaved people pleading their good works on the Day of Judgment, which won’t help them. And then the Blind Guide of Luke 6:39 when you factor in Matthew 15:12 through 14, the parallel passage is the Pharisee. So we spent a little time on that because he actually asked you three different questions.

Pastor Jim: [00:13:58] All right, Pastor, that’s great. Great way to kick off the program. Let’s go to the phones. Thank you for waiting. And thank you for calling the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods?

Caller: [00:14:10] Hi, my Bible. Hi. My Bible question is I’ve heard that heaven and earth shall pass away, but the word of God shall stand forever. And I want to go to heaven. But if heaven and earth is passing away, where would I be? Where would I go if it’s passing away? That’s my question.

Pastor Jim: [00:14:29] Thank you so much. That’s a great question. We appreciate you calling the program. Pastor?

Pastor Andy: [00:14:35] Well, heaven and earth will pass away, but the issue is, when is it going to pass away? It’s actually not going to pass away until the end of the Millennial Kingdom, which means that if you’re a Christian, you’ll be upon death or the rapture taken into heaven, you’ll return with the Lord at the Second Advent and you’ll reign with him on planet Earth. That’s your. That’s your destiny. But there’s going to come a point in time after that thousand year Kingdom runs its course that heaven and earth, just as Jesus says, will pass away. Why? So it can be replaced by a new heavens and new earth. So when you go over to Revelation chapter 20 and you look at verse 11, you see there the passing away of the heavens and the earth. This is after the Millennial Kingdom, it says, “And I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it from whose presence earth and heaven fled away and no place was found for them.” When you go over to Revelation 21, verse 1, it says, “I saw a new heavens and a new earth for the first Earth had passed away and there was no longer any sea.” So what God’s agenda is for this heavens and earth following the Millennial Kingdom is to destroy it.

Pastor Andy: [00:16:01] I would say it’s going to be destroyed by fire. It’s going to be dissolved. You’ll see a description of that in 2nd Peter, chapter 3, verse 10. Verse 12. Verse 13. Right in there. And then this heavens and earth that we’re in has to pass away because it’s corrupted by original sin. That’s Adam Sin. Put all of it into a state of travail and groaning. Romans 8, you know, seems to talk about that. So God has to rule over it one day, which he will in the Millennial Kingdom. He’s got to be victorious over this earth. He will be for a thousand years. And as a Christian, that’s where you’re going to be in the Millennial Kingdom, ruling and reigning alongside the Lord Jesus Christ. And then at the end of that thousand year kingdom, according to these passages I’ve given, he’s going to take this heavens and earth which are corrupted and he’s going to destroy them by fire, and they’re going to be replaced with the new heavens and new earth. And then that will be your new home, which is described in the last two chapters of the Bible.

Pastor Jim: [00:17:11] I’m okay with the heaven and the earth passing away if we’re going to get a new heaven and a new earth. How about you?

Pastor Andy: [00:17:16] Sure, It’s like, you know, let’s trade in the used car for a brand new one.

Pastor Jim: [00:17:24] Yes. And much better than that.

Pastor Andy: [00:17:26] Much better.

Pastor Jim: [00:17:26] Yes. Great question. Thank you for calling the program. We hope that was helpful to you. And back to the phones. We’d like to go now. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:17:35] Yes. Coincidentally, I was going to ask a question about the abolition of slavery in America. Was the ratification of the 13th Amendment in 1865. And then coincidentally, I heard this pastor before this came on about how people who believe in Jesus Christ are slaves. My question is, how is it possible that we can talk about in America, talk about people being slaves if the slavery has been abolished back in 1865? Thank you.

Pastor Jim: [00:18:12] Thank you for your call. All right, Pastor, is there any way in which we can interpret the abolition of slavery regarding the black race with being a slave to Jesus Christ?

Pastor Andy: [00:18:26] Well, it’s talking about two kinds of slavery, obviously. And of course, we should be very clear that it’s not just blacks that were slaves. And every I don’t even like the word race because there’s only one race. The human race.

Pastor Jim: [00:18:40] The human race, that’s right.

Pastor Andy: [00:18:41] But every skin color has been oppressed by some other skin color throughout history. You go back into the Bible and it was the Jews that were oppressed by the Egyptians. So it’s a horrible institution. By the way, it’s alive and well in many parts of the world. It sure is. But fortunately here in the late, great United States of America, as the caller said, we had the had the 13th Amendment. Before that, we had Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, and then it became part of our Constitution and the 13th Amendment. And then you have the 14th and 15th Amendments, which are designed to give rights to emancipated slaves. And so we’re one of the few nations on the in the history of mankind that actually rose up and did something against the terrible institution of slavery. But obviously, that institution is very different than biblical slavery. Peter, for example, in oh, I don’t know. Is it 2nd Peter Chapter 1 verse 1? 1st Peter Chapter 1, verse 1?  Right in there, he calls himself a slave, which is a doulos, you’ll notice. 2nd Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ. The Greek there is Doulos. And so what that’s speaking of is I’m not my own anymore. I’ve been bought with a price and it’s no longer my will, but thy will be done. So I’m Christ’s slave in that sense. But in no way is this talking about the same thing as the emancipation of physical slavery that happened in the United States?

Pastor Jim: [00:20:24] Amen All right. Thank you so much for that question. And back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:20:33] Hi, Good evening. Can you guys hear me?

Pastor Jim: [00:20:34] Yes, we can, go for it.

Caller: [00:20:36] Okay. Hey, yeah, my question is regarding Jude 6 and 2nd Peter 2:4, where I just want to summarize where it talks about the angels being, um, being imprisoned in hell. My question is, the Peter and Jude regarded the Book of Enoch as inspired scripture. And so, you know, we read the book of Enoch. God bless and have a good night.

Pastor Jim: [00:21:05] All right, thank you so much for that question. Pastor?

Pastor Andy: [00:21:08] Well, it’s kind of interesting, you’ll find Jude quoting Enoch. You’ll find him quoting a book called The Assumption of Moses. And you’ll find Peter doing the same sort of thing. The truth of the matter, though, is those books, Enoch, and the assumption of Moses, which we would consider non-Canonical. The Jews, for example, did not consider them part of the what we call Hebrew Bible. Old Testament canon happened to contain particles in them that were true. That happened to reflect biblical truth.  And so when Jude and Peter quote those books, they’re saying this part of it over here is accurate. But it’s not a blanket endorsement. Of the whole book, because some of those books teach things that go right against the Bible, you know, salvation by works, you know, other kinds of strange doctrines. So, it’s a lot like quoting since somebody brought up slavery earlier, it’s a lot like quoting the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson. You know, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all are, you know, created with unalienable rights given to them by their creator. When I quote that part of the Declaration of Independence, I’m not saying everything Thomas Jefferson ever wrote or said or did is true. Thomas Jefferson had different parts of his life. Some strange views of the Trinity that I don’t agree with. Thomas Jefferson himself owned slaves, which I don’t agree with.

Pastor Andy: [00:22:47] But what he said there in the Declaration of Independence is accurate. So when the Holy Spirit is guiding Jude and Peter to quote these Pseudo-epigraphical books, it’s not saying they’re endorsing the whole book. It’s saying those book books happen to be accurate at a point. So the second part of the question is, should we read those books? Well, they’re nice books to read. In terms of background, it’s like reading Josephus, which sort of gives you the history of, you know, Greco-Roman society, but not but we don’t look at Josephus as if he’s inspired.  So it’s okay to read those books, to get some background, but you shouldn’t look at them as if they’re inspired by God, because I don’t think Jude or Peter, when they cite those books, is giving a blanket endorsement to them. You have to understand something that Peter and Jude, when they wrote, were guided by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in a way far higher than we are, because they recorded God’s Word. And so just because they quoted a book or part of a book doesn’t give us some kind of permission to, oh, let’s go, you know, rifling through the books ourselves and see if we can find that, you know, that needle in the haystack, so to speak. So would you add anything to that?

Pastor Jim: [00:24:13] No, I think that’s absolutely right. I mean, some of these books are good for helping us understand them, the mind frame, if you will, of the people of the day. But again, that doesn’t mean that they rise to the level of scripture. Exactly. So so, yeah. Well, we hope that was helpful to you. And thank you so much for calling the program. Back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:24:36] Hi. Well, I’ve been reading in Revelation. And it’s always thrilled me to think about it. And I wanted to get your opinions. You’ve already talked about I was reading today about the coming of the new heaven and the new Earth. Are those anything like just the absence of evil and the absence of iniquity, like what we have now on Earth? Or I guess I want to ask you your expertise, and I do want to thank you so much for your programs. I wish they were on every night. I just love to listen to them. Did I make myself clear?

Pastor Jim: [00:25:44] I think we got the picture and what a kind person you are to say those kind words to us. So let us see if we can take a stab at helping you with understanding that God bless you for calling the program, brother.

Pastor Andy: [00:25:55] Well, I think when God brings in the new heavens and new Earth, it will be the absence of evil.

Pastor Jim: [00:26:01] Praise the Lord for that.

Pastor Andy: [00:26:02] Yeah. If you look at Revelation 21, verse 27, for example, it says nothing unclean and no one who practices abomination and lying shall ever come into it. But only those names who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. If you look at Revelation 22:15, it says outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the immoral persons, the murderers, the idolaters and everything that practices lawlessness. If you go back to Revelation chapter 21, verse 8, it says, But for the cowardly, the unbelieving, the abominable, the murderers, the immoral persons, the sorcerers, the idolaters, liars, their part will be in the lake of fire, which burns, which is the second death. So it’s clearly described as a holy environment. Once the new heavens and new earth come into existence. This is why God has to melt down the present heavens and new earth, because it’s in a state of travail and groaning being contaminated by original sin. So even though that’s true, this is more than just an allegory. Like a lot of people look at it as, oh, evil is going to be done away with. Isn’t that wonderful? Well, that’s part of it. But it really will be a new heavens and new earth. That’s just as real as this one. Um, that’s why it’s described with the same Greek word earth there that’s used everywhere else to describe this earth. So it’s going to be an actual, tangible, physical, literal, real existence, which is just as real as this creation that we’re now in. It will just be the creation without the blight of sin in it whatsoever.

Pastor Jim: [00:27:50] It’s not ideal. It’s real. It’s real. Amen All right. I think we have one more caller waiting. So let’s go back to the phones. Thank you for coming to the program. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:28:03] Yeah, you have my call.

Pastor Jim: [00:28:05] Yes, ma’am. Go for it.

Caller: [00:28:07] Thank you so much. About the Pledge of Allegiance, that I said every day in World War II.  Um, the words “under God” was not in there, but it was added later. Now we’ve got “Under God” or “In God we trust” on our money. Are they going to put “Under God” on something like the anthem or something or whose idea is it? Just stick that in where it wasn’t there originally. And what do you think about sticking it in when it wasn’t there originally?

Pastor Jim: [00:28:43] Okay. Thank you so much for calling the program.

Caller: [00:28:46] I’ve got another question.

Pastor Jim: [00:28:48] Well, we’re just about out of time, so let us answer this one, if you wouldn’t mind calling back. We appreciate that. Thank you.

Pastor Andy: [00:28:56] Well, I would say that a lot of those things were added in at the height of the Cold War, you know, to distinguish us from godless communism. That’s why they were added in. I don’t see the great harm in adding them in because it’s in harmony with our birth certificate, which is the Declaration of Independence, as we mentioned before, written by Thomas Jefferson, 1776, you’ll find the name God creator, I think five, maybe six times in different synonyms there in the Declaration of Independence. So, you know, when God is added to the Pledge of Allegiance and God is added to the money at the height of the Cold War, as far as I can tell, I have no big problem with that. Because it’s in harmony with our birth certificate, which indicates that our rights as Americans don’t come from man, but they ultimately come from God.

Pastor Jim: [00:29:51] Amen. All right. Well, we’re coming up on a station break, So at this time, we’re going to pause and ask you to stay with us. When we come back after the break, we’ll be praying for the nation. So see you in just a moment.

Announcer: [00:30:11] Encouraging, comforting and teaching. This is KHCB-FM Houston 105.7 FM from Fredericksburg to Giddings, Jefferson Marshall, Longview to Sulfur. This is the Keeping him Close By Radio network.

Pastor Jim: [00:31:06] All right. Well, welcome back and thank you for staying with us. We’d like to pause at this time to pray for the nation and encourage you to join along with us if you’re in a position where you can do so. And let’s do that now, shall we? Gracious and loving Father, you’ve instructed us in 1st Timothy 2:2 to pray for all who are in authority so that we might lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. And so we come to offer up our petitions for our leaders. We come first asking that you might lead them to humble themselves before you, for you exalt the humble and bring down the prideful. We come also asking that you might guide them to an acknowledgment of the truth that you, Oh Lord, are sovereign over your creation and that they might acknowledge and submit to the reality that there is a greater and higher power to which they will surely give an account. In addition, we ask that this reality would inform their every decision because you have declared that your will or that you will humble those rather, who resist your love and grace. We pray that our leaders might make godly decisions and cooperate with your divine plan and will – not only for themselves, but for all the people they serve.

Pastor Jim: [00:32:32] We pray also that you would help them as they enforce and formulate new laws and make legal decisions and rulings. Please move on these men and women and remind, motivate and convict them of their obligation to uphold the laws, regulations and principles which they vowed before you to defend. And please draw those who are lost to eternal life in your Holy son, the Lord Jesus Christ. For those serving in our government who are true believers, we ask you, ABBA Father, to strengthen and encourage them to seek the wisdom that comes from above. The wisdom that is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering and without hypocrisy as we’re told in James 3:17. ABBA Father also please pour out your mercy on all of our responders, first responders, law enforcement officers, fire and rescue personnel, doctors and nurses, the men and women faithfully serving in our military and all those who put their own lives in jeopardy to save and rescue others. Please protect them from hurt, harm and danger and bring them home safe to their families. Thank you also for encouraging and helping the body of Christ to be salt and light to those all around us who are lost, dying and without hope, so that they too might hear the gospel and place their faith and confidence in Jesus, your one and only beloved son and the savior of their souls.

Pastor Jim: [00:34:18] And finally, Father, thank you for the opportunity to serve you and thank you for loving us so much that you do not leave us as we are. But you work within us to conform us moment by moment into the image of your dear son. Help us to cooperate with your conforming and transforming processes so that our present temporary condition might reflect our present eternal position in Christ. And this we pray in Jesus name, Maranatha and Amen. Well, thank you for pausing with us. And at this time, we’re going to go back to the email box here and pull up another question for us. See for pastor here, it says, here’s the question. “Are those in the churches who go back to looking at videos and magazines and websites that include fornication and adultery and abominations, are they what Simon Peter called dogs returning to their vomit? Did Revelation 22 say dogs will not go to heaven? How should we pray for these people?”

Pastor Andy: [00:35:27] Yeah. How do you deal with Christians that involve themselves in, you know, these kind of godless activities, Christians or churches? The question says, well, there’s obviously two possibilities you’re dealing with. One possibility is they’re unsaved. They never were saved to begin with. They just kind of acted the part for a while. So they were like dogs, you know, returning to their own vomit. 2nd Peter 2:22, which is obviously a reference to unsaved people when you factor in verse 21, which comes right before verse 22.  2^nd Peter 2:21 says, “for it would be better for them if they had not known the way of righteousness than having known it turn away from it from the Holy commandment delivered to them” – clearly unsaved people. They could be like the dogs in Revelation 22, verse 15, who are outside the holy city and in the Lake of Fire. It could be like those in Revelation 9:20 and 21 who are unsaved in the tribulation period and would not repent. They could be like those in Romans 1:28 who as unsaved people suppress the knowledge of God and they’re given over to what we would call a reprobate mind. So that’s one possibility. The other possibility is that there’s they’re completely saved. Why would I say that’s a possibility? Well, because we have an example of a saved person acting like this in the Bible. His name was Lot. He’s clearly a saved person because 2nd Peter 2 verses 7 and 8 describe him as a righteous man. Not once, not twice, but three times. So he was positionally, righteous. And yet look at this man’s behavior. In fact, the story of Lot concludes with him involved in an incestuous relationship with his two daughters through which came the Moabites and the Ammonites, who became perennial enemies of the nation of Israel. So those are your two possibilities. Saved, unsaved. So how do you pray for them? Well, if they’re unsaved, you pray for them to get saved. If they are saved, you pray for them to grow in their progressive sanctification or the middle tense of their salvation.

Pastor Jim: [00:38:05] Amen. All right. Great question. Great answer. And let’s go back to the phones this dear lady has been holding. She wanted to follow up with another question. So back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting.

Caller: [00:38:17] You went straight to it when you said the dogs. And I thought and it was it’s not actually dog dogs. It’s puppy dogs. It’s actually the bad people.

Pastor Jim: [00:38:28] All right. So did we answer your question?

Caller: [00:38:31] Not really. If you got the new earth and everything. Well, of course. Oh, God, There’s so much evil in the world. Torture is so bad. I don’t understand people at all anymore. But they’re torturing animals really bad and killing animals so horribly. And animals are sentient, just like we are. Because God saved all the animals. Two by two?

Pastor Jim: [00:38:55] Yes, He did physically save them. You’re right.

Caller: [00:38:57] And Saint Francis thinks they’re wonderful too. But where the animals when we get this new place.

Pastor Jim: [00:39:05] All right, Where are the animals going to be? In the new heavens and new earth. Thank you so much for calling the program. We do appreciate you hanging on. Pastor?

Pastor Andy: [00:39:11] Well, first of all, the dogs of Revelation 22, verse 15, they’re not animals, but they’re people of low character. In fact, Paul himself uses that expression to describe people of low character in the book of Philippians chapter 3 and verse 2. So there it’s speaking of people of low character who are unsaved, unregenerated, and they’re outside, you know, they’re part of eternity in the sense that they’re in the lake of Fire, but they’re outside, you know, anything that’s good in the new heavens and new Earth, they’re not they’re clearly not in the New Jerusalem, for example. So one question is, you know, are there going to be animals in heaven? I’m of the persuasion that there will be, because the Book of Revelation chapter 19, verses 11 through 16, describes Jesus returning on a white horse at the end of the Tribulation period. And then it says this in Revelation 19, verse 14. And the armies which are in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following him on white horses.

Pastor Jim: [00:40:27] It does say that.

Pastor Andy: [00:40:28] So he’s on a horse. I don’t see why I can’t interpret that literally. Zechariah 9, verse 9 says he’d ride into Jerusalem on a donkey that happened. So why can’t he return on a horse? And then Revelation 19 verse, really 11 through 16 describes him riding on a white horse. But those that are following him, I would take that as the previously raptured church. We’re returning with him at the end of that 7 year time period, also riding on white horses. So I would say that there are going to be animals in heaven based on that. We’re not given the full picture, but I’m not ruling out animals and pets and things like that in heaven. But you’re not going to have a situation today where you have conflict sometimes, you know, between animal life and human life that that will be done away with.

Pastor Jim: [00:41:18] Amen All right. Well, let me take a moment here, if I could, to give out the phone numbers. Again, if you’re in the local Houston area, you can call 832-922-4444. If you’re outside the local area, you can call toll free at 877-999-5422. And as was mentioned earlier in the program, if you would prefer to email your question, you can do so at questions. That’s plural questions@khcb.org. And our good friend in the booth over here will make sure we get your question. So with that, let’s go back to the phones. I think we have someone waiting. Thank you for your patience. What is your Bible question for Doctor Woods this evening?

Caller: [00:42:04] Yeah. Hello, Doctor McGowan. Doctor Woods. Um, I was going to ask. I had a question about rewards, but I found some notes from a previous Thursday night, so. But I have a kind of a – Dr. Woods, what exact Bible do you use? Is it possible for you to read me the ISBN number? I’m dying to find out exactly which ones I want to buy. The one you use.

Pastor Andy: [00:42:34] Okay, well.

Caller: [00:42:36] It’s the giant print reference Bible, isn’t it?

Pastor Andy: [00:42:39] I do read the giant print reference Bible. The version that I typically read from is the New American Standard Bible NASB. The 1995 update is.

Caller: [00:42:50] Is it the foundation of publications?

Pastor Andy: [00:42:54] I really don’t know, to be honest with you. Oh, okay. Because I actually I actually don’t have the one I normally use at the church with me, but I think if you just went to your search engine there and looked for New American Standard Bible 1995 update giant print version, that’ll take you to where you need to be.

Pastor Jim: [00:43:18] Does that help? All right. I guess it does. All right. I have an email question here. Okay. Let’s take care of that, shall we? This individual asks the question or makes the statement here. “Churches and politicians today seem to embrace and encourage people who identify as trans and other non-biblical ways of referring to themselves. What specifically does the Bible say about these churches and politicians? What should we who identify as Christians be saying and doing?”

Pastor Andy: [00:43:50] Well, you know, the whole transsexual movement, you know, somebody that is a man but now identifies as a woman. Um, you know, what the Bible says is the whole thing is, is basically manufactured. It’s made up. Your gender is determined by biology. It’s not determined by one’s emotions or state of mind. God is very clear on this. You don’t have to get far in his book to see it. You know, 1st chapter, 1st book, Genesis 1:27 says right off the bat, God created them in his own image, in the image of God. He created them male and female. He created them. So what should we be doing as Christians in this transgender sort of environment that we’re in? Well, we should speak up concerning what the Bible says, and we should support those churches and politicians that are functioning, you know, according to a biblical worldview. Part of this question is, what do you do with, you know, how do you categorize these other churches or politicians that are wrapped up in the transgender movement? Well, you just simply say, you know, if you’re in a church or, you know, you’re in a someone is seeking your vote that basically believes a man can become a woman and a woman can become a man based on a state of mind rather than based on, you know, biology that they have a worldview but it’s not a biblical one. You know, it’s not your – they’re functioning outside of a biblical worldview because God does not leave the choice of gender to us. It is predetermined at the point of conception. And God created it that way. And if people don’t like it, they’re rebelling against the way God made them.

Pastor Jim: [00:45:51] Yeah, plain and simple. All right. We hope that was helpful. And let’s go back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:46:00] Yes. My question is a while ago the speaker spoke about the order of Melchizedek that Jesus Christ has been made has been made a high priest according to the Order of Melchizedek. My question is, what is the main feature of the Order of Melchizedek that we need to look for in the Lord Jesus Christ’s priesthood? What is the main feature that that Jesus Christ picked up from Melchizedek? That we need to look for in his priesthood? Thank you.

Pastor Jim: [00:46:35] Thank you so much for calling the program. All right. What is this issue of the Order of Melchizedek?

Pastor Andy: [00:46:41] Well, Melchizedek is kind of a ambiguous character that shows up in Genesis 14, a historical character and the author of Hebrews kind of reaches back and uses him as a type to build up what we would call the Melchizedek priesthood of Jesus. And the point of the book of Hebrews is, don’t lapse backward into Old Testament Judaism because you have a much higher system in Jesus. Jesus was born, you know, if Jesus was going to be just an ordinary Aaronic Levitical priest, he would have been born from the tribe of Levi. He was not. He was born from the tribe of Judah. So what is the main feature of his priesthood? Well, there’s not one feature. There’s many. First of all, he’s in heaven. Aaron’s priesthood was on the earth. Secondly, he doesn’t die, he is a priest as Psalm 110 talks about forever after the Order of Melchizedek, all of the Aaronic priests died. He’s sinless. You know, the Aaronic priests had offered sacrifices for themselves. Jesus doesn’t have to do that. And so he lives to make intercession for us from a place of glory at the Father’s right hand. Something that the Aaronic priests, you know, obviously were limited and were never able to do. So I wouldn’t say it’s a feature, it’s multiple features. And I would just encourage the caller to get into the book of Hebrews, because the whole point of the book is to develop these different characteristics of Christ Melchizedek priesthood, so therefore don’t lapse backward – that is the point of the book.

Pastor Jim: [00:48:29] Amen All right. Well, we hope that was helpful. Thank you again for calling. Back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:48:45] So my question is, is a two part question. So I’m reading through the book of Joshua, and in chapter 5. It shows that the captain of the Lord appeared to Joshua. Would that be a Pre-incarnate Christ version of Jesus Christ?

Pastor Jim: [00:49:03] Great question. All right, Pastor.

Pastor Andy: [00:49:05] Yeah. Does he want to ask a second one?

Pastor Jim: [00:49:07] Was there another question?

Caller: [00:49:09] Yeah. And the second one? This one. I see it. It wouldn’t be something I would start a church over, obviously, but this would be something that I think that could possibly be a parallel with Thessalonians chapter 4, and it’s in Joshua chapter 6, I believe it says they were basically marching around Jericho and it a shout for the Lord has given you the city, and the city shall be under the ban. Hold on. I don’t think I’m in the right part. Um, let’s see. I’m looking through here. Basically, they. They blow the trumpets and they shout. And then the wall falls down to Jericho and then they go up. So would that be a parallel with 1st Thessalonians chapter 4? Possibly when it says that there would be a shout and a trumpet and, you know, the voice of the archangel?

Pastor Jim: [00:50:06] All right. I think we got both of your questions here. Let’s see if we can get you a good answer. Thank you so much for calling the program. Pastor?

Pastor Andy: [00:50:13] Okay. Well, is this entity that they run into in Joshua 5 verses 13 through 16, is that what we would call a Christophany or a theophany or a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus? I’m of the persuasion that it is there because they worship this, this being. And it can’t be an ordinary angel because an angel that’s an ordinary angel never receives worship. There’s two times in the Book of Revelation where John once in chapter 19, and I think a second time in chapter 22, tries to worship the angel that was involved in mediating to him the apocalypse that we call the Book of Revelation. And twice the ordinary angel says, “don’t do it”. Well, here’s an example where. An angel. The angel of the Lord received worship. So that can’t just be an ordinary angel because he received worship. So there are examples of Theophanies Christophanies Pre-incarnate appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament. Jesus made reference to this. He says, Abraham saw my day and was glad.  And so there in Genesis 18, one of those angels, I think is a theophany. So yes, I am of the persuasion that that is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus. Concerning the shouting, you know, is that similar to the shout of the Rapture? I would be careful with that one because God has separate programs for Israel and the church. They are two trains on two different railroad tracks. And yes, there’s a commonality of a shout there in both passages. He was quoting from Joshua 6, I think he was quoting from and there’s a shout in 1st Thessalonians 4. But you have to understand that there’s a lot of differences in the Rapture. We receive a resurrected body. That’s not the case in Joshua 6 and in the Rapture there’s a harpazo, which means a catching up upward. And that kind of thing is not happening in Joshua chapter 6. So I would be careful about developing types just from one point of similarity when the differences outweigh the similarities.

Pastor Jim: [00:52:34] Amen All right. Well, as we look at the phone, we see that we have no callers right now. So let’s take a moment, Pastor, if we could, could you tell us a little bit about your relationship with Chafer Theological Seminary?

Pastor Andy: [00:52:48] Sure. I’m the president of a school called Chafer Theological Seminary www.chafer.edu. Not to be confused with Francis Schaeffer of La Brea, but Lewis Sperry Chafer. And we agree with his philosophy of education. And so we felt that a lot of schools were getting away from the bread and butter, so to speak, the basics. What was it that Vince Lombardi said to his football team? After a big loss, He went up and held the ball up to his team and he said, Gentlemen, this is a football.

Pastor Jim: [00:53:31] Yes, he did.

Pastor Andy: [00:53:31] In other words, we got to get back to the fundamentals. And we feel like a lot of schools out there have sort of gotten away from the basics, which is systematic theology, four years of Greek and Hebrew, Bible exposition and having more of a Bible centric, Bible focused content. And so we wanted to offer degrees. We have a 30 unit credential program, we have a 60 unit M.B.S program, and then our crown jewel is the 120 unit CCM, where we’re basically trying to prepare the next generation of teachers to rightfully handle and rightfully divide God’s Word. And so that’s what the school is about. If you’re interested in seminary training, go to that website that I gave a little earlier and you can find out about it.

Pastor Jim: [00:54:21] And how would that compare, Pastor, in terms of the cost to go to take classes at Chafer, say, with one of the other established schools?

Pastor Andy: [00:54:30] Well, I think our costs are very minimal when you can when you actually do a cost comparison. Our faculty are all pastors, so there are – a lot of our overhead is cut down there. There are pastor dispersed throughout the country in the world. So we don’t have like even though we have an office in a church in Albuquerque, going to a brick and mortar campus is something that we don’t need to do any more because of all the technology that we have. So our philosophy is to deliver quality, biblical and theological education from anywhere to anywhere. So I’ve taught a class right there from my living room to people scattered all over the country and and in some cases, different parts of the world. And so that’s what we’re trying to do.

Pastor Jim: [00:55:21] So, you can get a high quality education, theological education right in your own home.

Pastor Andy: [00:55:28] Right, in your home. And the truth of the matter is, we have more churches asking for our graduates than we have graduates. All over their churches are wanting, you know, doctrinally sound, you know, biblically focused, teaching pastors. And we’re not just training pastors. We’re training Sunday school teachers. We’re training missionaries, you name it.

Pastor Jim: [00:55:50] All right. Well, Pastor, thank you for that information. And listen, if you’re thinking about wanting to further your education, I’d encourage you to give Chafer Theological Seminary a call. All right. That’s enough for that commercial. Let’s go back to the phone, shall we? And thank you so much for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:56:07] I am calling about Chapter 7 of 25. Hebrews 7:25 It says wherefore he is able to save us to the uttermost, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. My question is this – Does he ever stop making intercession? Does he cease from making intercession? And if he is and if he doesn’t, I don’t think he does. I think the guy is just constantly interceding for what’s going on on this earth and has been for 2000 years. But my first question is, does he ever stop and just rest and say, I’m tired of interceding right now, but if he never stops, how can we get connected to what he is interceding for? That’s my main question. Thank you.

Pastor Jim: [00:56:54] All right. Thank you for calling. Pastor?

Pastor Andy: [00:56:56] Well, I would say he never stops because he never dies and he never falls asleep. Unlike the Aaronic priests who had to, you know, retire, Did they not have to retire at a certain age?

Pastor Jim: [00:57:07] I believe it was 50.  About age 50.

Pastor Andy: [00:57:08] There’s no retirement for Jesus. And it says here in Hebrews 7:25, he always lives, you know, to make intercession for us. The second part of the question was, how do we I think…

Pastor Jim: [00:57:22]  How does that apply, that interceding, what is it the interceding involved with I guess really is the way you look at that?

Pastor Andy: [00:57:30] Well, I think He would intercede for many things. For example, remember what he said to Peter. You know Peter, I’ve prayed that your faith would not fail. I think he prays for us in the midst of trials and tribulations. And how do you get in touch with the things he’s praying for? It’s just a matter of going through the gospels and learning about the things that are on his mind, you know, praying for evangelistic opportunities, praying for that we would not yield to temptation. You know, he says to the disciples in the upper room, you know, he’s disappointed with them because they actually not the upper room, but the Garden of Gethsemane, you know, when they had fallen asleep, you know, he’s so he’s praying for us in our weaknesses. Whatever our weaknesses happen to be, he’s making intercession for us.

Pastor Jim: [00:58:18] And would the intercessory ministry of Jesus if it’s continuing on. I think the caller was getting at – if it’s continuing on into eternity with the new heavens and new Earth, what would be the application of that intercession? How would that how would that apply? I think was where he was trying to go.

Pastor Andy: [00:58:38] Well, I’m not sure I fully understand the focus of the question. Maybe you do a little bit better than I do. I just think he’s praying for the things that are on his heart. And so if you want to understand the heart of Jesus, you have to study the gospels and you’ll see what’s on his heart. And I think those are the things that he’s praying for.

Pastor Jim: [00:58:56] All right. Thank you so much for calling. And back to the phones we go. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?

Caller: [00:59:02] Oh, hello. I’m trying to get a better understanding of what’s going to happen after the Seven Year tribulation. Like I’ve heard that somehow we come down or something. And during that thousand years, the people that are in the thousand year reign that we rule them, that they have children and that the children may sin and then we rule them. I’m not getting the full understanding of that thousand years. And then what happens after the thousand years?

Pastor Jim: [00:59:36] All right. I think Pastor can answer that for you.

Pastor Andy: [00:59:39] Well, you got two groups of people. You’ve got people that are resurrected that would be Old Testament saints and tribulation martyrs, along with the previously raptured church, were in resurrected bodies and were ruling and reigning with Christ during the thousand years. But there’s another group of people that survive the tribulation and those that are believers pass through what’s called the sheep and goat judgment, and they enter the kingdom in their mortal bodies and they repopulate the earth. So that’s why there’s one group that can’t sin, that’s us and another group that will have the capacity to sin. So in some way, shape or form, we’re ruling over that mortal group. You know, during the 1000 year time period, it’s sort of similar to the 40 days in between Christ’s resurrection and Ascension, where he was conversing with the disciples. They were asking him questions and he was in a resurrected body and they weren’t – during that 40 year time period, if you can imagine that happening for a thousand years. That’s sort of what the Millennial Kingdom is about. And really quickly, we’re getting ready to close here. But what happens at the end of the thousand year kingdom? Well, there’s a rebellion amongst the mortals. It’s judged. That will pave the way for the great white throne judgment, which is a judgment for all unbelievers, as their name is not found written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. They’re cast into the lake of fire forever. And then there’s a meltdown of the present heavens and earth by fire. Revelation 20, verse 11; Revelation 21, verse 1; 2nd Peter chapter 3, verse 10. And then we move into the Eternal State Revelation 21 and 22.

Pastor Jim: [01:01:25] All right. All right. I think we have one more caller we’re going to try to squeeze in here real quickly. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?

Caller: [01:01:33] Yes, I would love to read your program. And they said that God’s wrath is shown in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. I know was shown doing Sodom and Gomorrah and with Noah’s Ark. But where is God’s wrath shown in the New Testament?

Pastor Jim: [01:01:49] Great question. Thank you for calling the program. Pastor?

Pastor Andy: [01:01:52] Well, God’s wrath is shown in the Book of Revelation. Revelation 6, 16 and 17, the great day of his wrath has come. Who can stand? It’s kind of a misnomer that, you know, the Old Testament is hellfire and brimstone, and the New Testament is grace. You’re going to find grace in both testaments. That’s right. Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. But you also see God’s wrath through the flood and through Sodom and Gomorrah. And then, of course, the New Testament. You have Grace in the coming of Jesus. But read Matthew 23 and you’ll see there’s and Matthew 24. Right? There’s a time of judgment coming and you see it fleshed out in the Book of Revelation.

Pastor Jim: [01:02:36] Amen. Well, thanks to everyone who called the program this evening, we truly appreciate you. You make this possible. We ask that you pray for us. We’re praying for you and hope that we see you again next time on KHCB’s Question and Answer Program. God bless.