KHCB Broadcast – Pastor’s Q & A – June 29, 2023• Dr. Andy Woods • June 29, 2023 • KHCB Radio
KHCB – 06-29-2023 – Full Program Transcript
Announcer: [00:00:00] Good evening. Welcome to our weekly Question and Answers program. A program where you can call us with your questions about the Bible, a scripture or the Christian way of life. And our guests will answer that question for you live on the air. Tonight’s guests are Dr. Andy Woods, Senior Pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church. He’s also president of the Chafer Theological Seminary. He has authored and contributed to many Christian books and theological journals. He also speaks on a variety of topics at Christian conferences and churches. Also tonight we have Dr. Jim McGowan, Associate pastor of Sugar Land Bible Church. The church website can be found at SLBC.org.
You can also reach them at the “Pastors Point of View” found on YouTube (Pastor’s Point of View) and Rumble (Pastor’s Point of View) and their website Andy Woods Ministries.org.
If you’re calling from inside the Houston listening area, you can dial (832) 922-4444. That’s (832) 922-4444. If you’re calling from around the KHCB network outside the Houston area, you can dial (877) 999-5422. That’s (877) 999-5422. Or if you’d rather email your question to us, you can send that to questions. That’s plural Questions@KHCB.org and it will appear on our computer screen here in the studio and we’ll forward it to our guests. We ask that you not mention any denominations or personal names, because our aim tonight is to answer questions relating to the Bible. And now to get us started, here are our Pastors Dr. Andy Woods and Dr. Jim McGowan.
Pastor Jim: [00:02:39] Welcome once again to KHCB’s Question and Answer program. We’re so very glad that you’re tuning in. And we’re also glad to know that we don’t have to depend on man’s wisdom this evening because we have access to the only real answer book, the Bible, God’s Holy Word. Since the Bible is the only inspired, authoritative revelation of everlasting truth, it alone is fully trustworthy. Moreover, listening friend, the Bible is God’s love letter and life manual designed by our loving Heavenly Father. And we can find within its pages everything we need for life, godliness and full spiritual maturity. So expect to hear from God because He’ll be speaking. And then be sure and remember to praise him and thank him for the answers that he’ll be providing. And so with that said, let’s see here we do have an email that we could start off with here, Pastor. So let’s do that. This questionnaire emails us and says, “My pastor said, those who are dead are not in heaven or hell until after the judgment day. Would it be unfair if God put someone burning in hell before they were judged?”
Pastor Andy: [00:03:59] All right. Well, you notice it says “my pastor said”, and we love pastors, but the issue isn’t what someone’s pastor said. It’s what’s what does God’s word say? And, you know, this idea that somehow the dead don’t immediately go into heaven or hell until the final judgment day, that’s just not an idea that’s supported in the Bible. When you look at 2nd Corinthians chapter 5, verse 8, Paul the apostle says, absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And he says over in Philippians 1:21 through 23, for me to live as Christ to die is gain, you know, concerning life and death. He was torn between the two and he says it’s much better to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. So, you know, Paul anticipated immediately upon the Christian’s death that their soul would go directly into the presence of the Lord in heaven. And it’s the same principle with the unsaved. According to Luke, 16 verses 19 through 31. Remember the rich man that died? And he went into Hades and he was immediately in torment to the point where he wanted, you know, Abraham to come over and dip the, you know, the his finger there on his tongue and cool it down. This would be, let’s see, the rich man’s name was.
Pastor Jim: [00:05:34] Well, the rich man didn’t have a name, but Lazarus was the poor man.
Pastor Andy: [00:05:38] Lazarus was the poor man. Thank you. And he also had five brothers, you remember? He wanted it was either Abraham or Lazarus to go back and warn his brothers. I can’t remember if he wanted Abraham to touch the tip of his tongue or Lazarus.
Pastor Jim: [00:05:56] No, he wanted Lazarus to dip his finger in the water and come, you know.
Pastor Andy: [00:06:00] Okay.
Pastor Jim: [00:06:00] To quench his thirst there.
Pastor Andy: [00:06:02] Your recollection of that specific that story is much better than mine at the present time, apparently. But the point is still true that he was an immediate conscious torment. And when you go over to the Book of Jude and you look at verse 7, it says, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as they indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal life. The Greek is there, the present tense. And so they were presently undergoing eternal punishment. So, you know, it is true that at the final judgment that we call the Great White Throne judgment, the unsaved dead of all ages will be summoned and they will stand before the Lord and as their name is not found written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, they will be judged by the book’s – Revelation 20 verses 12 and 13. But it does describe that these people came out of Hades, which was emptied. So even before that final judgment, you know, they were in a place of conscious torment. So this idea that, you know, somehow the dead go into kind of a soul sleep until the final judgment, whether it’s saved or unsaved, that’s just not an idea, you know, that supported by scripture. So I hope that helps answer that question.
Pastor Jim: [00:07:36] Awesome. Thanks, Pastor. Appreciate that. All right. I see that we have the phone lines lit up. So let’s go to the phones and take our first caller. Thank you for calling the program this evening. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?
Caller: [00:07:48] Yes, sir. Thank you so much for taking the call. And I want to thank you again for the program. This is – it’s not an unusual situation, I guess. But I would like for you to comment on. Well, let me tell you this first. We’ve had we lost a baby, a great grandbaby, and their mother and dad have come through in glorious, glorious manner. They did not lose their faith. They did not blame God or anything. And I have a son in law from a previous marriage that had a child that grew up. I think he was probably somewhere around 20, but he had this disease where he never talked, he never communicated. He couldn’t walk. I don’t know what thought process was. But my question is, is there scriptures that validate, and I’ve always heard this, but I’ve never been able to read it from the scripture that validates those situations. Those since they never had a chance to make a commitment, will they be and is it validated in Scripture where they will be in heaven?
Pastor Jim: [00:09:29] Yes. Amen. Listen, thank you so much. I know that you have to make yourself vulnerable to call into a program like this and share this kind of thing. And I just want to tell you how much we feel with you. We grieve with you, and we appreciate you taking the time to call. If you would allow me, let me give you the name of an excellent resource and then I’ll kick it over to Dr. Woods. Dr. Robert Lightner wrote a book entitled Safe in the Arms of Jesus, Safe in the Arms of Jesus. And it’s not a large book. It’s just a paperback. But he deals with this issue and. In some similar issues in that book, so I’d encourage you to get a copy of that and then I’ll pass you on over to Dr. Woods.
Pastor Andy: [00:10:12] Yeah. Isn’t the subtitle of Dr. Leitner’s book, God’s Provision for Those Who Cannot Believe? It deals directly with the issue that the caller brings up. Well, the only real scripture I know of that deals with God’s provision for those that are unable to believe is in 2nd Samuel, chapter 12 and verse 23. This was David’s son that died. And he says in verse 23, after a time of mourning, he learned his son had died who was in that same circumstance – too young to believe. He says. But now, 2nd Samuel 12:23. But now he has died. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him. But he will not return to me. And David there is acknowledging that when he dies, he’s going to see his son again in the in the next life. And a lot of people, unfortunately, take this as well, you know, if the son is one of the elect and David will see him again, if he’s not one of the elect, then he won’t see him again. Well, that doesn’t fit the context because when you go to the next verse, verse 24, it says, Then David comforted his wife, Bathsheba. So how would that be a comfort to Bathsheba if, hey, if he’s one of the elect, we’re going to see him again. If he’s not one of the elect, he’s in hell. So, you know, I really don’t have a lot to work with scripturally other than that verse. And I know at the end of the day, that 2nd Peter, 3 verse 9 says, God is not willing that any should perish, but all should come to repentance. God wants everybody in heaven with him. And to me it’s just antithetical to his nature to, you know, damn people to hell that never had a mental opportunity to receive Christ. So, I hope that helps.
Pastor Jim: [00:12:13] Yeah, I think that’s absolutely right. And again, thank you so much for calling the program. We hope that that was helpful to you. And our prayers are with you and your family. God bless you. All right, back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?
Caller: [00:12:26] Hey, shalom. Dr. Woods, I was wondering if everything is pre-determined, pre-destined by God, and if so, why would I pray asking for anything? My mother has cancer and I have a lot of friends that are sick and we pray that they get well. But if it’s already determined. Um, my question is why? And I’m not trying to be a wise guy. I’m just wondering.
Pastor Jim: [00:13:03] Well, listen, that’s a great question. I think probably a lot of people are thinking along the same lines, but I know the Bible has some great answers here. So, Dr. Woods?
Pastor Andy: [00:13:12] Well, I would just say, if everything is already set in stone and prayer doesn’t change anything, you know, why does God tell us to pray to begin with? He says in Luke 18, verse 1, Men ought not faint, you know, but they ought to pray. And I’m thinking of James 5, verse 16, and following it talks about how the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective and availeth much. And in that context, around verse 17 and following of James 5, you’ll see him using Elijah as an example, who was actually able to alter meteorology for three and a half years because of his prayer life. So, you know, of course God is in control of everything. God is sovereign, but he has apparently chosen to act his will out in some circumstances. Not every, I don’t think, but in some circumstances according to the prayers of his people. And so, you know, yes, God is sovereign, but let’s not go crazy with the doctrine and make it sound like there’s no human responsibility, because that would take us in an unbiblical direction.
Pastor Jim: [00:14:24] Yeah and don’t we have just numerous examples? I mean, I’m thinking of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane when he came, you know, on 2 or 3 occasions, came back to the disciples and said what are you doing sleeping? You ought to be praying. And then later we see after the Resurrection in the Book of Acts, especially in the early chapters, that the church comes together specifically to pray so well. If everything is predetermined, why pray? Well, yeah, I think you covered that well. I hope that was helpful for you. Thank you for calling the program. We do appreciate that. And back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Wood?
Caller: [00:14:58] Yes, my question is coming from Acts 15 and the two verses to focus on, if you don’t mind, is. Acts 15:5. Excuse me. Acts 15 – where it talks about the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. It was a matter of circumcision and then the skip on over to the finalization of that get together is in James 13 and after. So 15, 13, so 15, 15, six and 15:13 and after they had held their peace, James answered. So the question is this. And James gave the answer and he stood up and said, Listen to me. When King James version says, hearken to me, I’m my understanding is that he stood up and said, let me tell y’all what what’s going down here? I’ve never been in an Elders meeting and so but I see one happening here and I see, of course, it says the apostles and elders. We don’t have any more apostles meetings because there’s no more apostles. But we do have elders and they meet. I’ve heard they meet, I’ve heard of elders meeting. I’ve never been to one. But is this the way it happens? They get together, they all say something and then one person stands up and said, Here is…. He gets a he gets his what they call the judge gets his hammer out. The, the, the, you know, the wooden thing and slams it down on the wood. It cracks says here is what we are going to decide. So I mean that’s what I’m seeing here. James got up and said here is what is going to happen and hey, I’ve never been to an Elders meeting. How do they work? Do they work like this particular place here?
Pastor Jim: [00:17:04] I think I think we got the question. Let’s see if we can give you a good answer, dear brother. All right, Pastor.
Pastor Andy: [00:17:10] Well, you know, there’s a context here for Acts 15. And of course, chapter 13 and 14 comes before chapter 15. And in chapter chapters 13 and 14, Paul had gone out on his first missionary journey into southern Galatia, and there were just tons and tons and tons of Gentiles, non-Jews that were being saved. And so as they were getting saved, they have an ecclesiological problem. And the problem is, once these Gentiles come into the church, and remember, the leadership of the church at this time was still predominantly Jewish, completely Jewish. Do we put them under the law of Moses for church admission? They weren’t trying to put them under the law of Moses for salvation because they already knew that a Gentile could be saved – Acts 10. You know Cornelius was saved. So they have to figure this out. And of course, it seemed logical to put the Gentiles under the law to join the church, because that’s the way the nation of Israel had functioned. You know, going back to Mount Sinai, you know, for 1500 years. So it’s kind of interesting in a book where God, his voice or visions or the Holy Spirit said, you know, is frequently used, You don’t find that happening in Acts 15. So they had to discern the will of God without a vision or an audible voice or something of that nature. And that’s why James quotes Amos 9 verses….oh, I don’t know, 11 through 15. And he points out that, look, in the Millennial Kingdom, the Gentiles are going to be allowed full participants. So let’s let the Gentiles in, you know, to the church now without making them submit to the law of Moses.
Pastor Andy: [00:19:01] And by the way, us Jews, if you look at our history, we didn’t do such a great job of obeying the law of Moses and so why would we think these Gentiles could bear up under a yoke, you know, that we couldn’t bear up under? So that’s basically what’s happening as these apostles are trying to reason through something without a direct vision or voice of God. Now, how does that apply to a modern elder meaning? Well, number one as elders, we’re not apostles. Number two, we have a completed canon of scripture to make decisions based on which this group here in Acts 15 didn’t have. So what do you do if it’s kind of a gray area or an ambiguous area where all the elders may not be in agreement about something and a decision has to be made? Well, what we do at our church is we just say, let’s, you know, dismiss the meeting and let’s have a private time of prayer and then we reconvene and see if we have a healthy consensus you know, moving forward, in some cases, we don’t just want a consensus, we want 100% majority. You know, we’re currently functioning with six elders, you know, in our local assembly. And so that’s how we do it. It’s analogous to a little bit like Acts 15, but it’s not the identical situation because these are the Apostles. And Ephesians 2:20 says they were the foundations of the church and the apostles were all gone. They’re with the Lord in heaven and we have a completed canon of Scripture, so I hope that helps a little bit.
Pastor Jim: [00:20:41] Amen. All right. Thanks, Pastor. That was a great answer. And let me give out our phone numbers again, because I see that we do have some free lines. So if you are outside of the Houston area, you can call the toll free number at 877-999-5422. But if you’re local, you can call 832-922-4444 if you prefer. You can also send an email question to questions with an s plural email@example.com. And while we’re waiting for the phones to light back up, Pastor, I happen to have another email question here, so let’s tackle this one. This questioner says “Sometimes Bible verses of extremely high significance are glossed over and taken for granted because of their simplicity. One such three word quotation might be it is finished. Please take a moment to consider John 19:30”.
Pastor Andy: [00:21:44] All right. Well, that’s a great question, John 19:30 “it is finished” represents the final words of Jesus prior to his death as he was dying on the cross. The English translation is “it is finished”, but the Greek is the word “tetelestai”, which is a beautiful word in the Greek language. It means paid in full. In fact, we actually have remnants of it all over the Greco-Roman world. It’s basically an accounting term. It’s what was stamped, you know, on a bill when a bill was paid. You, it was paid in full. And that word to tetelestai was stamped on the bill when it was paid in full. And not only that, but this word tetelestai here in John 19, verse 30, is in the perfect tense. And basically that means a one-time action with ongoing results. So the use of the term, the perfect tense of the term, demonstrates that what Jesus did for us on the cross 2000 years ago completely and totally took care of the sin debt of the whole world. In other words, if I’m trying to make myself right with God, I can’t do it. The only thing I can do is to trust in not my own good works, but the good work Jesus did, which 100% took care of the sin problem. And this word to “tetelestai” needs to be understood because a lot of people approach the doctrine of salvation.
Pastor Andy: [00:23:15] Like, you know, God bought lunch. Now I need to throw in the tip. You know, God did 90%, but the remaining 10% is up to me for my justification. And what does that mean? I’ve got to pay, pray and obey. And how do you know if you’ve paid, prayed and obeyed enough? That destroys the assurance of salvation? But everything changes when you understand that everything has been paid for. So as a Christian, I serve the Lord not because it’s required, but because it’s reasonable. Romans 12, verse 1 says, In light of these mercies, offer yourselves your bodies as a living sacrifice to God, which is your reasonable act or work of service. And so that’s why I serve the Lord, because I can’t believe what he did for me. I don’t serve the Lord because, you know, somehow I feel that what He did on the cross was pretty good. But, you know, most of what he did was good. He took care of most of the problem, but the rest is on my shoulders. The word tetelestai will not allow that. And so, this is the what one author called the great Grace Awakening. And this is what we need to understand because it alters our motive for service and holy living.
Pastor Jim: [00:24:42] Yes, Amen. Praise the Lord. All right. I see that we have a caller waiting, So let’s go back to the phones. Thank you for being patient. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?
Caller: [00:24:51] Hi, Good evening, Pastor Andy Woods and Jim. I just have a quick question regarding Genesis 3 – I believe it’s verses 1 and 3, if I’m not mistaken, We’re we have this satan figure. And I understand that the Bible calls him a serpent. I was trying to I was trying to say, is it literal serpent? In other words, is it an animal that appeared to Eve or is it the Bible is using it some type of figurative in the sense of like, you know, trying to portray that there was like a snake or I’m sorry, a serpent. Can you please just a little bit elaborate on that?
Pastor Jim: [00:25:29] We can sure do that. And I just appreciate so much these great questions we’re getting this evening. So thank you for that. Pastor, is it a literal serpent or is it just a make believe?
Pastor Andy: [00:25:40] Well, it’s a little bit of a tricky question because, or tricky issue, I should say, because when you go to the Book of Revelation and the Bible is its own best interpreter, in Revelation 12, verse 9 and Revelation 20 verse 2, it specifically calls the serpent of old Satan. So I think that gives me permission, since I think John understood the Book of Genesis better than most commentaries today. That gives me permission to see Satan here. So I’m looking at the serpent there. I’m seeing Satan. Now, having said that, I still think it’s a real serpent. I just think it’s the devil took the body of a serpent allowing the serpent to speak. I mean, we know that the devil can possess people, he possessed Judas. I think it was in John 13, around verse 27, it says, Satan entered Judas by way of possession. So why couldn’t Satan do that with an animal? I mean, we know that demons went inside the pigs. The pigs there at Gadara. So why can’t Satan, the leader of the demons go inside of an animal? So I actually see it as an animal that spoke, but it spoke because Satan was inside the animal and chose the form of a serpent. I have to see Satan there because in some sense, you know, without de-literalizing it, because the Book of Revelation tells me two times that the serpent is Satan. So is it Satan or is it an actual serpent? I guess my answer would be yes. It’s not an “either or situation”. It’s a “both and situation”. By the way, the reason Satan took the form of a serpent here is because he’s trying to reverse God’s command. God told Adam and Eve to rule over the animal kingdom and here he’s trying to get them to take orders from the animal kingdom and rebel against God. And that’s why Satan chose to take on the body of a serpent, either by, I think, by way of possession here at the dawn of human history. I hope that helps.
Pastor Jim: [00:27:54] Yeah. And I think it’s interesting that this happens right away. You know, at the beginning of the creation there with man and woman, and then for the rest of the time in the Bible, we see that those two ideas combined, don’t we, the serpent and the devil is it becomes almost a combined idea or concept through the rest of the Bible. Very fascinating. All right, let’s see. I think we have another email question we could go to here. So let’s do that. This question says, let’s see here. Deuteronomy 24:16, 2nd Kings 14:6. Is that the wrong one?
Pastor Andy: [00:28:27] Let me see what.
Pastor Jim: [00:28:28] Take a look at that.
Pastor Andy: [00:28:29] I don’t want to answer the wrong, the wrong question. Yeah, that’s fine. I’m sorry.
Pastor Jim: [00:28:34] Well, better be safe than sorry. Right. So anyway, the question says from these particular texts, the mentions here, “the law states that each person should die for their own sins. But what about in numbers chapter 16, where Korah’s whole family is wiped out for his rebellion against Moses. While in the Book of Esther and says Haman’s ten sons and 500 other men in Susa, I can’t get that. My my tongue twisted right there.
Pastor Andy: [00:29:04] Susa?
Pastor Jim: [00:29:04] Susa. There it is, are killed for Haman sins. So he’s wanting to try to understand how we bring those two passages or different passages together there.
Pastor Andy: [00:29:14] Yeah, that’s a great question. And you could throw into the mix Daniel 6:22 It says, My God sent his angel and shut the lion’s mouth and they have not harmed me inasmuch as I have been found innocent. And then you jump down to verse 24, it says the King Daniel, 6:24, gave orders and they brought those men who had maliciously accused Daniel and cast them, their children and their wives, into the lion’s den. And they had not reached the bottom of the den before the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones. So the issue is you have these texts the questioner mentioned several, but one of them is Ezekiel verse 20, which says, God only punishes people only for their own sin verses other texts like Daniel 6:24 where it looks like someone sins and the whole family gets punished. I would bring these two sets of texts together as follows I would just say the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, right? And if the parents are involved in gross sin, it’s just a matter of time before the children, through their volition, become involved in gross sin as well. And God knows that’s going to happen because he has infinite foreknowledge and because God knows it’s going to happen. He sometimes punishes an entire family for something that one member of the family did. Um, that’s the best way I know how to reconcile these two strands of thought that seem to go in opposite directions.
Pastor Jim: [00:30:52] All right. Well, we hope that was helpful. And it’s time for us to take our top of the hour station break. So hang on. We’ll be back with you in just a moment for our prayer for the nation. God bless you. See you in a minute.
Announcer: [00:31:11] KHCB-FM Houston 105.7 also broadcasting in Lockhart, San Marcos, Austin, Beaumont, Port Arthur and Natchitoches, Louisiana. And if you missed a program today or you would like to listen to one again, you can find your desired program using the On-demand feature at KHCB.org. Keeping Him Close By.
Pastor Jim: [00:32:06] All right. Welcome back to KHCB’s Question and Answer program. It’s time for the Prayer for the Nation. So if you’re in a position where you can do so safely, we’d encourage you to join us at this time. Let’s go to the Lord in prayer, shall we? Abba Father, you tell us in 1st Timothy 2:2, to pray for all who are in authority so that we might lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. And so we come before you this evening to pray for our nation and her leaders. We know that President Biden has, does and will continue to make decisions that not only affect the lives of people in our nation, but literally all over the world. For this reason, he desperately needs your wisdom. So, strengthen him, Lord, and give him the wisdom he needs. Cause him to always speak and act honestly and with true integrity and cause him to know how much you love him. If he is unsaved, bring him to a right relationship with the Savior. If he is a believer, draw him ever closer to yourself and anoint him with your Holy Spirit and equip him for the task at hand. Speak to him, soften his heart, and make him a true servant leader. Surround President Biden with strong, wise and spiritually mature counselors who will fearlessly speak truth to him and give him ears to hear.
Pastor Jim: [00:33:35] Grant him also wisdom to reject the temptation to seek personal power and glory. Cause him to know that true success comes only with and through your divine hand. Abba Father, we also pray for our members of Congress and ask you to reveal yourself to them. Save those who are lost and strengthen those who are saved. Remind them of truth, integrity, justice and fairness and the good and godly aspirations they had when they first ran for office. Give them a desire to promote things that honor you, not just their own political careers. Help them to put aside arrogance and a desire for personal fame and glory and give them the strength to work together for the good of all Americans. We also pray for our governors and our state legislatures. Please give them strength and wisdom and guide their decisions. Surround them also with advisors of high moral character and spiritual maturity. Inspire these advisors and speak through them by the power of your Holy Spirit so that our governors and our state legislatures might be rightly informed. We similarly pray for our mayors, city councils, county commissioners, officials, judges and all who serve our local communities. Please equip them and strengthen them with wisdom and grace. Be with them as they manage their respective teams and projects, help them to keep their hearts pure and their eyes intently focused upon you as they work for the interests of all the people they are called to serve.
Pastor Jim: [00:35:26] We also ask you, Abba Father, to maintain in your providential care all of our law enforcement officers, those serving in the military. Guard them from hurt, harm and danger as they serve our communities and restore these institutions to their rightful place of honor in the eyes of all Americans. And finally, Abba Father, remind your blood bought saints that this earth is not our home, that we are sojourners, we’re pilgrims and we’re ambassadors of Christ in a foreign land. Remind us that we are to continue to be about your great work of sharing truth until we meet you face to face. Use us in the days ahead to be salt and light to those who are lost and dying all around us and grant us the great privilege to see many come to Christ through our personal witness. And this we pray in the name of Jesus, Maranatha and Amen. Well, thank you for joining us in prayer. And so at this time, we did have one more question that we needed to address. So let’s go ahead and pick that up where we left off. This same individual wrote in and says, Romans 5:13 says, “Before the law, sin is not imputed. So does this mean those who sin prior to the law will be judged?”
Pastor Andy: [00:36:50] Well, I would say that the folks that sin prior to the law are still judged because they have the law. The law of God is written on their hearts. You know, either accusing or excusing, by the way, of conscience. So people have the law of God, whether they had the law of Moses or not – Romans 2 verses 14 and 15. And even beyond that, they have the witness or testimony of general revelation that God exists obviously, because of his work in creation. Romans Chapter 1, verses 18 and following demonstrates that. So all of those pre Mount Sinai folks, you know, that did not have the law are still going to be judged because they still have the witness of creation, general revelation, and they still have the witness of conscience, even though the law of Moses hadn’t, you know, wouldn’t be given till around 1446 BC. You know, right in that time period. So when it says that Romans 5, verse 13, that sin is not imputed to them, it doesn’t mean sin is not imputed to them at all. It simply means sin is not imputed to them under the Mosaic law because the law of Moses hadn’t been given yet. But they’re still going to be judged because they have the law of conscience.
Pastor Jim: [00:38:16] Amen. All right. Great answer. Thank you, Pastor. And I see we have a number of folks waiting, so let’s get right back to the phones. Thank you for your patience. What is your Bible question this evening for Doctor Woods?
Caller: [00:38:29] I was just wondering. I know that it’s very important to tithe. However, you have to tithe directly to your own church or can you use your tithe and maybe give it elsewhere where you think it might be serving a better purpose?
Pastor Jim: [00:38:48] All right. Great question. Thank you so much for calling the program. I bet you a lot of people would want to know the same thing. So, Pastor, how would we respond to this issue?
Pastor Andy: [00:38:57] Well, I think the first thing is to get beyond the matter of the tithe, because tithing really is part of the Mosaic law, which governs only Israel and not the church. Psalm 147, verses 19 and 20, talks about how the law was only given to Jacob or Israel. And under the Mosaic law there were actually three tithes. So if you want to go under the Mosaic law, you shouldn’t be giving 10%. You should be giving 23 and 1/3 percent. Because 2 were collected annually and 1 was collected by the nation of Israel every 3rd year. It was like a mandatory taxation system, much like living in the United States. You know, taxes in the United States are mandatory, obligatory and not optional. So, if you want to develop an understanding of how we are to give today, we follow the principles of grace giving. You’ll see them articulated in 2nd Corinthians chapters 8 and 9, where there’s a lot of adverbs there. Adverbs, of course, modify verbs, modifying giving. How do you give? You give cheerfully. You give proportionately as God has blessed you, you give secretly. Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount said “Don’t let your right hand know what your left is doing. Et cetera. You give non-grudgingly. You give sacrificially.
Pastor Andy: [00:40:31] That’s where your philosophy of giving comes from rather than from a tithe, which is an Old Testament law concept of exactly 10%. So you give, as the Lord has purposed in your heart. Who should you give to? Well, it’s interesting. In the Book of Acts, the gifts that were given were laid at the Apostles feet. You’ll see that in Acts 4. But we don’t have apostles today. But I do believe that your primary giving should go first to where you’re being fed spiritually. The book of Galatians Chapter 6, verse 6 says “The one who is fed or given truth should share all good things with his teacher”. So it’s an idea that you, whoever is blessing you, whoever is feeding you, whoever is shepherding you. I’m speaking now of a local church. I mean, that’s where your primary giving goes to. How much should you give of your income? That’s between you and the Lord based on the matters, based on the principles of grace giving that we articulated, you know, a little bit earlier. Now after that, and can you give to other causes and ministries? Of course you can. You just give, as the Lord has purposed in your heart. But there should be in your giving a priority first and foremost to your local church.
Pastor Jim: [00:41:48] Yeah, the laborer is worthy of his hire, Right. Amen. Well, we hope that was helpful for you. Thank you so much for that. Great question. Back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods? Hello? Are you there?
Caller: [00:42:06] Hey, coming from Acts 15 again at the end of Acts 15, you’ve got Barnabas and Paul. Uh, I think he’s. Anyway. Paul, Barnabas and Paul. Barnabas and Saul are just saying, let’s go preach the gospel again. And then they have a disagreement about, No, let’s not take Mark. And it’s a big, big showdown. And. And Paul takes Mark and goes off. My, my. I want to tie that in just a few verses down in 16:13. No, no sooner than they had decided that there’s no more circumcision in Acts 16:13. Paul is circumcising Timothy and I’m asking myself what is going on here? And my question is, why does Paul get so many passes in talking about him where Peter is, the whipping, the whipping post of the New Testament? He’s guilty of having a big mouth. He’s guilty. I mean, all Peter did in Galatians was simply get up from the table and leave the Gentiles from having dinner with them. Paul circumcised a Greek after they’d had the conference. Why? My question is, why does Paul get so many passes and nobody ever puts him? Hey, my question is, like Paul told Peter, I rebuked him to his face. Why doesn’t why doesn’t it? Didn’t anybody ever rebuke Paul to his face regarding these hypocrisy? That hypocrisy. Thank you.
Pastor Jim: [00:43:51] All right. Thank you. Well, I’m not sure you had three or 4 or 5 questions in there, so we’ll try to figure out which one to answer. But, Pastor?
Pastor Andy: [00:43:58] Well, that, you know, he raises a good point. I mean, it is interesting how Paul says, you know, you’re not justified and sanctified through circumcision. Then he’s got members of his own team, you know, circumcised. Well, and then it’s kind of interesting. Paul preaches against animal sacrifices, but when you go to Acts 21:26, you see Paul issuing an animal sacrifice. So what’s going on here with Paul? You have to understand Paul through the lens of what Paul himself writes in 1st Corinthians 9, I want to say around verses 21 and 22 where he says, you know, I become all things to all men that I might win some. Paul did these kinds of things not to preach justification or progressive sanctification by the law. But he did these kinds of things to win a hearing amongst the Jews. It’s very difficult to evangelize someone when you’re offending them because you’re not following their law. So to win a hearing so that he would win an audience, he would submit to the law of Moses. However, he would not submit to the law of Moses. In fact, he would fight you tooth and nail on it if someone was telling him. I mean, this is what the whole book of Galatians is about.
Pastor Andy: [00:45:23] You have to submit to the law of Moses for purposes of justification or progressive sanctification. So once you understand the 1st Corinthians 9:22 lens, you know, I do all things that I become all things to all men that I might win some. It’s it helps you understand why Paul does what he does in the Book of Acts. So if that’s what he’s doing, there’s no need for anybody to stand up and rebuke him. On the other hand, Peter, Peter was compromising on the issue of legalism. He was giving the impression that you have to go under the law of Moses to be justified and or sanctified. When the Pharisees, those coming from James, the Judaizers showed up, Peter would give the impression by withdrawing from the Gentiles that, boy, you better go under the law of Moses for purposes of justification or sanctification. And that’s why Paul rebuked Peter to his face. He was putting people under the law for tense one of salvation, justification tense two of salvation, sanctification. Paul was not doing that. Paul was doing what he was doing so as to avoid being an offense so that he might win some. So once you understand these different lenses, the contradictions kind of disappear.
Pastor Jim: [00:46:46] They really do. It’s so very important to keep context in mind, isn’t it? All right. Thank you so much for calling the program and back to the phones. Thank you for calling this evening and being patient. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods?
Caller: [00:47:01] Great to hear y’all guys. Love to hear y’all’s program there. I was looking at, uh Corinthians last night about, um, I think it was in chapter 13 about tongues ceasing. And I was just curious because that was in one of our church’s doctrinal uh, I think it was our doctrinal statement or something in our – at our church. But anyway, uh, my pastor taught me that the tongues will actually that I do believe. I mean, I do know that people are divided on that. Some believe that it still exists and then some don’t, so I’m good with that. But I’m just saying, isn’t that very clear in the Bible, though, that tongues ceased? I mean, uh, and then when will it pick up again? I think my pastor taught me either it, it picks back up in the Tribulation period or. Or the Millennium Kingdom. I don’t know. Uh, for witnessing. So I’ll hang up and listen to y’all.
Pastor Jim: [00:48:03] All right? Thank you so much for calling the program. We do appreciate it. Pastor, what is this issue of the tongues ceasing?
Pastor Andy: [00:48:11] Well, it talks about when the 1st Corinthians 13:10, it says when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away with. The partial in context would be prophecy. What I’m mentioning here is a gift of prophecy, where someone is a direct conduit from God knowledge receiving direct knowledge from God outside of Scripture. And of course this issue of tongues, which is really languages. And what the Bible says is those disappear when the perfect comes. So the big issue is what’s the perfect right? And most people unfortunately understand the perfect as relating to the coming of Jesus in the Second Advent, or they kind of connect it with something related to eschatology, the coming of Jesus. But the problem is the Greek word there is “Teleon”, which is neuter. And it’s a very strange thing to describe Jesus in the neuter form rather than the masculine form. So what you’ll discover is you get into James chapter 1 is the law, or the Scripture, is described with this word “Teleon”. And so what I believe it teaches is once the “Teleon” or the Scripture becomes complete, the canon of Scripture being complete. In other words, when the very last apostle, in this case, John, has written the very last book of the Bible, in this case the Book of Revelation, at the very end of the Apostolic Age, which in this case would be AD 95, the moment that happened and John penned the final word of the Book of Revelation, the canon of Scripture was complete.
Pastor Andy: [00:49:58] The perfect had come. And so these revelatory gifts at that point ceased. This is why you’ll find in the writings of Augustine Chrysostom, even in the influential volumes of church history written by Philip Schaff of a disappearing, a petering out of what we would call tongues, translated tongues or languages in the post apostolic era. Now, I understand completely and totally that what I’m saying is very controversial. So let me recommend a paper on the subject that you can find online that I wrote. It’s just type into your search engine, my name, Andy Woods, and type in the perfect 1st Corinthians chapter 13. And that paper should come up. I think it’s a fair paper because it gives not just the view that I articulated, but you’ll find all the views articulated. It’s called The Meaning of the Perfect in First Corinthians chapter 13, verses eight through 13. I believe it’s floating around online out there. You can find it on the www.spiritandtruth.org. You’ll also find it on the Dean Bible Ministries website, where there’s an archive of one of the recent Schaefer Theological Seminary conferences where I presented this paper.
Pastor Andy: [00:51:35] But that’s my understanding of the “Teleon”. Now that doesn’t mean that prophecy is done away with forever, because following the church age, in the next dispensation, we’re going to have prophets. We’re going to have two of them in Revelation Chapter 11. So that may mean, that may explain what this gentleman heard from his pastor, that some of that will come back in the next dispensation, but in this dispensation as far as we’re concerned, some of these partial revelatory gifts have ceased. But the edification gifts like teaching administration, mercy, those things continue on. And the reason the revelatory gifts have ceased is we now have a completed Canon, which, according to 2nd Timothy 3, verse 17, is capable of equipping us for every good work. Second, what is it? Oh, 2nd, Peter 1, 3 and 4 says, through these promises, the Scripture, we have everything we need for all matters of faith and practice and godliness. So these partial revelatory gifts are no longer necessary. They were needed until the canon was complete. But now that the canon is complete, they’re no longer needed. So check out that paper to get the full perspective on this.
Pastor Jim: [00:52:53] Amen. All right, Pastor, great answer. And again, thank you for calling the program and back to the phones. Thank you for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?
Speaker9: [00:53:02] Good evening, gentlemen. Hi. I have a question regarding Matthew, the book of Matthew chapter, particularly chapter 13 and verse 15. I’ve been reading that and towards the very end of that verse it reads – and I’m reading from the NASB version and understand what their heart and returned and I would heal them. But it sounds like he was convicting or talking to them in this parable. And I don’t understand how to decipher this, what that ending part means.
Pastor Jim: [00:53:46] Okay. All right. We appreciate you calling. Thank you so much. God bless you, Pastor.
Pastor Andy: [00:53:52] Well, you know, essentially what’s happened here is you’ve got to go back to chapter 12, verse 24, where the religious leaders of 1st century Israel just attributed Christ’s miracles to the devil. And the moment that happened, the offer of the kingdom, you know, “repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand”, which is spoken of in Matthew 3:2 by John the Baptist, by Jesus himself in Matthew 4:17, and then by the disciples in Matthew 10 verses 5 through 7 – that phrase disappears. In other words, Israel, until you get to Matthew 12:24, had an opportunity to receive the King and the kingdom and the Millennium Kingdom as we know it would have materialized right then and there on planet Earth. But it’s very apparent after you get to Matthew 12:24 that that’s not going to happen. And there’s going to be a time of postponement where the kingdom is not canceled, but it’s postponed for a future generation of Israel to accept. Now, that does not mean that God is not working in the interim age. He’s working in the interim age. Just not in the kingdom sense, the way they understood it. And that interim age is spelled out in the form of eight parables in Matthew 13, the first of which is the parable of the sower, that throughout the interim age, until a future generation of Israel accepts the offer of the kingdom, the gospel will go out. But it’s not going to bring in the kingdom because in the kingdom the earth is going to be filled with the knowledge of the Lord. Isaiah Chapter 11 and other passages speak of that. Instead, it’s going to be dispersed to four different soils representing four different parts, four different preparations of the human heart.
Pastor Andy: [00:55:46] And it’s only going to bear good seed on one batch of soil. So that’s very different than what the kingdom, what the Scripture says concerning the kingdom. And so Jesus is filling in this interim age through these eight parables. And that’s what’s going on in Matthew 13. And so when he interjects here, the hardness of the hearts, he says in Matthew 13, beginning in verse 14, you will keep on hearing, but you will not understand. You will keep on seeing, but you will not perceive. For the heart of this, people has become dull and with their ears they scarcely hear and they have closed their eyes, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their hearts and understand with their heart and return and I would heal them. That’s a quote from Isaiah 6, verse 10. This is what God said to Isaiah when he was commissioned for the ministry, you know, 700 or 800 years before the time of Christ. And so Jesus says that same spiritual hardening has happened to the nation of Israel. That’s why the “kingdom now” offer is off the table. That’s why there’s now an interim age and the hearts of the nation is so callous that Jesus can’t even reveal what’s happening in the interim age to the religious leaders. He’s instead revealing it to the babes or the remnant or the disciples, and it’s their ears that can hear these interim age truths. But the nation as a whole, you know, can’t understand these things because their heart is just as calloused as it was, you know, when Isaiah was commissioned for the ministry. So I hope looking at the whole context, kind of puts that together for you.
Pastor Jim: [00:57:39] Amen. All right. Thank you so much, Pastor, and thank you for calling the program. And let’s go back to the phones quickly. Thank you so much for waiting. What is your Bible question for Dr. Woods this evening?
Caller: [00:57:49] All right. I’ll try to tighten my question up. Okay. So, you know, we all think that, you know, we’re in the season of the rapture and there’s rapture fever all over the place on social media. And I just wanted to see what yours and Dr. Woods take is on these folks that are trying to align the rapture with the Feast Days and like the what’s that WEF thing, the 20, 30 thing or seven years? And I don’t know, I’m just kind of wondering – what is the fine line between watching and waiting? Like 1st Thessalonians 1:10 says the wait, but we all know we’re watching. But so I just kind of want to know, Dr. Woods thought on this, saying they’re not date setting, but they really are.
Pastor Jim: [00:58:44] All right. Thank you so much for calling the program, Pastor.
Pastor Andy: [00:58:47] Well, the first thing to understand is don’t confuse the Rapture, which concerns the church with the Feast Days of Leviticus 23, the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 concern the nation of Israel. The Rapture concerns the church. Israel had a calendar. The church has no calendar. And, you know, if you’re looking for something to be fulfilled in the future via a trumpet on the feast day, it’s in Matthew 24:30 and 31. It’s where Jesus sounds a trumpet and summons his elect from the four corners of the earth that’s the regathering of national Israel at the end of the tribulation period – has nothing to do with the church. The church has already been raptured out at least seven years before, and that’s what will take place on a Feast Day. Rosh Hashanah, the Feast of Trumpets. So the Feast of Trumpets has nothing to do with the rapture of the church. It has everything to do with God regathering Israel at the end of the Tribulation period. So don’t get caught up in the Rapture has to happen on a feast day. It does not. The church is not under the law.
Pastor Andy: [00:59:57] And if you go under part of the law, you’re under the whole thing, right? The Book of James, what is it? Chapter 2, verse 10 indicates. So the way to understand these things is the signs that we’re seeing all around us is the approaching of the Seven Year Tribulation period. And if the Rapture comes before the Tribulation period, and it does, these signs tell us that the Rapture is coming even faster. The analogy and I’ll use – this quick analogy, and then we’ll be done – that I like to use to explain this is Christmas. When you see Santa Claus, you know, coming out in the Christmas season and the department stores, what do you know? You know that Thanksgiving is near because Thanksgiving occurs earlier in the calendar than Christmas. And so when we see the signs of the Tribulation period approaching as they are and we understand that the Rapture precedes the Tribulation period, we understand that the Rapture is coming even faster. And so that’s how I would understand the signs of the times. Don’t mix it up with Israel’s feast days. I hope that helps.
Pastor Jim: [01:00:59] Amen Well, folks, I’m sorry to tell you, we’ve come to the end of the program and what a great time we’ve had this evening. Thank you so much for calling. We ask you to pray for us. We’re praying for you. And stay tuned next time for KHCB’s Question and Answer program. God bless you. Have a wonderful week.